Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
BruiseLeee :
Yes and no. There are lots of knives being made out of "high tech" steels which are totally unsuitable for the knives they are being used on. However there are also blades which have been carefully chosen to maximize the ability of the new steels. There have been real advancements in steels, the 5160 and similar steels offer advatantages over the plain carbon steels like 1084, so its not too much of a jump to think that in the time since 5160 was introduced that we made have came ahead again.
The critical part is does the steel allow you to make a better knife. Simply grinding the same functional knife profile out of a new steel gains you next to nothing (with the exception of wear resistance and corrosion resistance). Are there any steels that would allow a khukuri to be made that would be a better overall blade that one of the HI 5160 versions? By better I mean that it would cut better without giving up any durability, or cut the same and be more durable (hard to achieve that obviously). Wear resistance and corrosion resistance being the toss up aspects, I ignore the latter just like Bill, and wear resistance is not critical for chopping anyway.
The answer is yes. Look at CPM-3V, it has a very high toughness and strength and can easily be ran at 57/58 RC on a heavy chopping blade with no worries about toughness. You should be able to run it thinner than 5160 without any durability problems and thus get a better cutting blade, the extra wear resistance is just a bonus. Since you can fully harden it without concern you can also have a greater strength at a lower cross section. So why hasn't 5160 been completely taken over?
Cost basically and ease of working. To get say an 18" long, 3/8" thick khukuri in 3V I can't see anyone taking it on for less than $500 and I would actually be very surprised if that happened I would think it would be more realistic at $750. Just trying to get it in that stock thickness isn't going to be trivial, nor to mention the huge amount of raw material that is going to be wasted due to the odd profile. You could go with forging, but the CPM steels don't have a great relationship with the forgers currently, they much prefer to work with steels like 52100 and 5160. As well the 3V blade will be harder to grind (increased cost of abrasives and time), and finish, plus requires a more complicated heat treatement.
From a cost perspective then just compare this to the price of a HI Ang Khola for example. From this perspective the 3V blade doesn't have much of a user appeal. If you cut the thickness down to 1/4" then the cost will take a huge dive downwards, but a lot of the khukuri functionality is lost on really thin blades, it not really the same knife at all. Plus you also have to deal with side issues like how many makers will offer the HI guarantee? Will you feel the same confidence in a blade that if there is a problem the maker can simply say "Sorry that's abuse".
In regards to ease of sharpening, that is more of geometry and suitability of steel issues rather than the inherent difficulty of removing the metal with an abrasive. I have very hard blades (62+ RC), with ultra high alloy compositions that sharpen quite easily because the steel is well chosen for the blades intended use and the edge profile is minimal. Yes you have to be using a fresh clean and quality hone, but it is not like these are that expensive or rare.
-Cliff
Yes and no. There are lots of knives being made out of "high tech" steels which are totally unsuitable for the knives they are being used on. However there are also blades which have been carefully chosen to maximize the ability of the new steels. There have been real advancements in steels, the 5160 and similar steels offer advatantages over the plain carbon steels like 1084, so its not too much of a jump to think that in the time since 5160 was introduced that we made have came ahead again.
The critical part is does the steel allow you to make a better knife. Simply grinding the same functional knife profile out of a new steel gains you next to nothing (with the exception of wear resistance and corrosion resistance). Are there any steels that would allow a khukuri to be made that would be a better overall blade that one of the HI 5160 versions? By better I mean that it would cut better without giving up any durability, or cut the same and be more durable (hard to achieve that obviously). Wear resistance and corrosion resistance being the toss up aspects, I ignore the latter just like Bill, and wear resistance is not critical for chopping anyway.
The answer is yes. Look at CPM-3V, it has a very high toughness and strength and can easily be ran at 57/58 RC on a heavy chopping blade with no worries about toughness. You should be able to run it thinner than 5160 without any durability problems and thus get a better cutting blade, the extra wear resistance is just a bonus. Since you can fully harden it without concern you can also have a greater strength at a lower cross section. So why hasn't 5160 been completely taken over?
Cost basically and ease of working. To get say an 18" long, 3/8" thick khukuri in 3V I can't see anyone taking it on for less than $500 and I would actually be very surprised if that happened I would think it would be more realistic at $750. Just trying to get it in that stock thickness isn't going to be trivial, nor to mention the huge amount of raw material that is going to be wasted due to the odd profile. You could go with forging, but the CPM steels don't have a great relationship with the forgers currently, they much prefer to work with steels like 52100 and 5160. As well the 3V blade will be harder to grind (increased cost of abrasives and time), and finish, plus requires a more complicated heat treatement.
From a cost perspective then just compare this to the price of a HI Ang Khola for example. From this perspective the 3V blade doesn't have much of a user appeal. If you cut the thickness down to 1/4" then the cost will take a huge dive downwards, but a lot of the khukuri functionality is lost on really thin blades, it not really the same knife at all. Plus you also have to deal with side issues like how many makers will offer the HI guarantee? Will you feel the same confidence in a blade that if there is a problem the maker can simply say "Sorry that's abuse".
In regards to ease of sharpening, that is more of geometry and suitability of steel issues rather than the inherent difficulty of removing the metal with an abrasive. I have very hard blades (62+ RC), with ultra high alloy compositions that sharpen quite easily because the steel is well chosen for the blades intended use and the edge profile is minimal. Yes you have to be using a fresh clean and quality hone, but it is not like these are that expensive or rare.
-Cliff
