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Recommendation? Fantoni S125V Issues

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by marrenmiller, Sep 16, 2020.

  1. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 6, 2017
    I read that before, yeah. This doesn't behave like anything that's anywhere near that hard. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am in this case. But that is definitely the right process per AKS to get somewhere in the 62 HRC range.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  2. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 6, 2017
    From what I've seen based on everything they and others have done, S125V should be capable of extreme edge retention, and should even manage to hold a great fine edge given a good heat treatment. After all, carbides or not, this steel still should be 61-62 HRC and shouldn't lose a shaving edge this fast. And even after 30 or so feet of cardboard, it noticeably loses bite when cutting paper.

    Larrin already commented that he has had no issues deburring the S125V in his test knife.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  3. Twindog

    Twindog Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 6, 2004
    You might want to send your knife to someone who has a hardness tester. If the hardness isn't within the target range, you could have a heat treat issue.
     
    marrenmiller likes this.
  4. Sharp & Fiery

    Sharp & Fiery Always Embellish Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    May 14, 2012
    Your inbox is full
     
  5. Natlek

    Natlek

    Jun 9, 2015
    I have several knives from M35 and M42 HSS steel in range of 64-68 HRC .I can sharpen them with 800 grit DMT to cut easy toilet paper .They stay shaving sharp for long time .Now , I make small knife from tungsten carbide /80-82HRC/ .....I try everything and I can t sharpen that thing to cut hair .It cut clear phone book paper , receipt paper .....but no way hair on hand...and it is only 1.2mm thick ????
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  6. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 6, 2017
    Fixed, thanks for the heads up
     
    Sharp & Fiery likes this.
  7. BITEME

    BITEME Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 14, 2007
    They made so few of these you would think they would keep a very close eye on the process....I have one that is super sharp but I haven't used it yet(carried a couple times)
    I was under the impression they closed the shop about a year ago ,which would be sad the knife is a real beauty.
     
  8. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 6, 2017
    Well, I'd be curious to see what you think if you ever decide to test it. All I did was perform the same sort of cardboard edge retention testing that I do on other knives, and the results have been consistently appalling.

    I honestly haven't seen anyone really do any good testing or even show they've used these things, so for all I know they might all be like this.
     
  9. dirc

    dirc

    Jan 31, 2018
    I'd like Larrin to chime in on this:
    could it just be that s125v is just too brittle to keep a good apex? or maybe the temper temperature didn't get quite high enough so it's more brittle than even s125v should be? I can't think of anything else to explain the poor retention
     
    marrenmiller and shqxk like this.
  10. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 6, 2017
    one way or another, I'd bet anything the heat treatment is borked. Rather than being too brittle, I'm inclined to think it's too soft based on what's happening to it, but I can't verify that without sending it to someone.
     
  11. Kevin Wilkins

    Kevin Wilkins

    Oct 7, 1998
    Fantoni Knives is closed and gone. They are no longer in business and their company in Maniago was shuttered some time ago as already posted in this thread. The elder Mr. Renzo Fantoni was over 80 years old and still working until he unfortunately became very ill and was forced to retire. His son, who also helped with the knife business, decided to liquidate and close it down. I don't know who ended up with their remaining inventory, but there are certainly some dealers who still may have knives to sell. There will not be anymore and I do not think any company is handling any type of authorized service for existing products. I worked with Renzo for many years and consider him a friend as well as business associate. I have not been able to find out how the Fantonis have fared during this Covid crisis. I hope they are OK.
     
  12. BITEME

    BITEME Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 14, 2007
    Here's my results, catching fingernail and shaving arm hair before I cut the cardboard, cut small pile still catching fingernails and shaving arm hair the edge is about 20 degrees each side,
    I love the way it cuts,I have been reluctant to use it but thanks for the opportunity ,s125v was a steel i was chasing for quite a while kind of over that phase now but the steel is definitely cuts.
    I had the 02 version the smallest one, with a black blade and I sold it ,still crying about that and that was about 7 yrs .ago,recently spoke with the guy I sold it to and offered to buy it back ,and he said no thank you :mad: 20200918_071826.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
    marrenmiller likes this.
  13. Sharp & Fiery

    Sharp & Fiery Always Embellish Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    May 14, 2012
    Thank you so much for that info, Mr. Wilkins.
    I apologize for my non-current information. My friend must be ordering from a distributor who still has stock.
    It’s very sad to hear about the confirmation of closure from someone like yourself. I also hope they are doing well amid the craziness that is Covid.
    I wish you well, and thank you for the correction.
     
    marrenmiller likes this.
  14. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 6, 2017
    That isn't really a lot of cardboard for such an extreme alloy, but mine flat-out cannot do even that much.

    Did you find it difficult to sharpen/deburr?
     
  15. BITEME

    BITEME Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 14, 2007
    I have never sharpened it ,its really the first time I've used it - some other steels aus8/154cm I usually will feel a very slight dulling after cutting a similar ammount of cardboard this didn't have that ,honestly I could have went quite a bit more it was flying through ,but your point was that yours was dulling very quickly after a few cuts?as you know shaving sharpening isn't it's strong point, working edge is where it excels.
    Over the years I've quit chasing these supersteels because I prefer a keen edge over working edge but I do still love me some maxamet, et.al :thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
    marrenmiller likes this.
  16. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 6, 2017
    Thanks for the help.

    It's been demonstrated time and time again that a properly heat-treated supersteel at 62 HRC should hold a shaving edge for a while, regardless of how much carbide is in it, as the matrix holding the carbides is still ~62 HRC. S90V/S110V doesn't degrade into a working edge after a few feet of cardboard, and this shouldn't either.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  17. Twindog

    Twindog Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 6, 2004
    Your knife is spec'd at 61-62 Rc. If you have a knife with a known hardness a bit less than that, you can take off the scales and try to scratch the back of the blade with the point of the softer knife. Do it discretely in an area that is not visible when the knife is put together.

    If the knife with a hardness of 60 Rc or less can scratch your S125V and the S125V cannot scratch it, you will know it's too soft.

    I had a custom heat-treated blade made from a super tough steel -- A8(mod) -- that didn't perform well. It actually chipped and cracked. The maker said he heat treated it to 60.5 Rc. But using the tip of a knife with a softer steel, I could easily scratch the A8 blade, but not vice versa. My blade was already ruined when I tested it, so I didn't care about scratching it, but you can try to scratch it where it will not show.

    You can also buy hardness files, but they tend to cover a wide range. However, one set on Amazon has a file for 60 Rc. That should not be able to scratch your S125V.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 6, 2017
    Very good idea! I'll do that when I'm back home. I have quite a few knives that perform like they're in the 60-62 range that I can use.
     
  19. brownshoe

    brownshoe I support this site with my MIND

    Sep 6, 2002
    Too bad about Fantoni. They made some classic knives over the years.
     

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