Farm Life

[David Martin]

Ok, I found a folder with s60v steel that has 1.5" of rolling on it's edge. I'll go at this one with the brass rod and see what effect it has.
Now, your saying to pull it along the rod, at the correct angle? A lateral movement? Not work it in a upward movement against the rolling? Because the drawing looks to be working the edge straight into the rod at a 90* angle. Hard to realize what your doing. DM

 

[tiguy7]

Yes, the matrix and those elements hardened in it, (i.e. vanadium carbides) will give an advantage to that steel in cutting and resisting deformation.
If you observed Dairy cows being brought to slaughter, those are Canners, grade. A old cow who used up her useful life and now her end result
is dog food. They are thin and tough to process. And they are using a commercial grade boning knife of 420 steel which can be bent back into
place with a steel. Not in the same kettle of fish as our example here.
Your old diagram looks like your using a drawing motion to straighten the rolled edge. Not a edge trailing lift. DM

In this edge testing procedure, the entire length of the edge is tested for its ability to flex and return to the origninal position. The knife has to be lifted enough to cause and observe the (moving) deflection. I don’t make blades, so I don’t use this test.
The principle is applicable to fixing short sections of rolled edge. If you can see and/or feel the roll, pulling the blade, edge trailing, along the brass rod can restore the proper geometry to the edge. I much prefer a rolled edge to a chipped edge. Higher hardness gives more resistance to rolling, but the fun stops when the edge chips instead of rolling.
I have corrected many rolled edges especially when I processed more bony critters. A tough piece of wood or a ceramic plate can also ambush a blade. I have even corrected rolled edges on steel pipe. On a bicyle trip, you can use the back corner of the STOP sign post.
Those commercial boning knives are hardened to the soft side of a steel. I am not excited by 420 steel.

 

[tiguy7]

Ok, I found a folder with s60v steel that has 1.5" of rolling on it's edge. I'll go at this one with the brass rod and see what effect it has.
Now, your saying to pull it along the rod, at the correct angle? A lateral movement? Not work it in a upward movement against the rolling? Because the drawing looks to be working the edge straight into the rod at a 90* angle. Hard to realize what your doing. DM

The correct angle is just a little higher the the bevel angle. The lateral movement is just enough engage the length of the roll. Start with a lighter pressure and see if the roll is shrinking.

 

[tiguy7]

Ok, a good photo. But what have you actually processed with them? Used them to gain personal experience and knowledge in. Specifically toward knowing what is occurring at the edge to bring about rolling. Then how to fix it. DM

I first started using S-90-V in 2004. I was particularly impressed by its ability to shave/plane the the edge of 3/4” plywood and still be shaving sharp. I have EDC’d S-30, ZDP-189, Stellite 6-K, and Talonite. I haven’t rolled any of these, but I am not using them as hard as you do. When cutting small branches, I use a folding saw with a TiN coated blade. In the kitchen I have cleavers for bone work. The newer S-110 and S-125 blades arrived about the time that my hunting and fishing activities tapered off.

 

[David Martin]

Ok, thanks. I'll give the brass rod, trailing edge honing a try. Then let you know what I notice. On s90v steel I can improve this rolling condition
some by stropping on a hard leather strop with diamond slurry applied. This gives me 30-39% improvement. But it just cannot fix the rolls.
Back-honing on a x fine diamond plate helps much more. Then working the more problem areas with both, edge trailing and edge leading, gets
it cleaned up. When I was push cutting it thru finger size bones the rolls were more pronounced. Every type steel I used did it. Some more than others. Even a hatchet of 1060 steel with do it. And this has an edge of 23-24*. So, these bones are more challenging than many thought. I was surprised. DM

 

[David Martin]

I think one should not reprofile a edge unless your going to do nothing more than slice brisket. DM

 

[st8yd]

Hey Dave, What are you processing that requires you to cut thru finger sized bones with a knife?

 

[David Martin]

10-12 lb. Cornish meat chickens. They grow fast and and produce a lot of meat on their carcass. As I divide up the whole bird into the cuts I cut thru their joints mostly. But the thighs, breast, neck and wishbone I either push the knife through these bones or use the hatchet and palm it thru. The hatchet takes this better than the knife. Pruning shears work for this too. DM

 

[jbmonkey]

this has turned a different way but very interesting discussion on s90v from farm life with bucks. thanks y'all. enjoyed the read on this topic. looking forward to your testing results David.

 

[jbmonkey]

I think one should not reprofile a edge unless your going to do nothing more than slice brisket. DM

if it's an obtuse edge much more than 40 degrees inclusive.......i reprofile...but buck is very good at consistent primary bevels closer to 30 to 40 range so I agree.......no need to do that typically......unless cutting meat with no bones etc. or just want to.....

 

[st8yd]

10-12 lb. Cornish meat chickens. They grow fast and and produce a lot of meat on their carcass. As I divide up the whole bird into the cuts I cut thru their joints mostly. But the thighs, breast, neck and wishbone I either push the knife through these bones or use the hatchet and palm it thru. The hatchet takes this better than the knife. Pruning shears work for this too. DM

Ok, you had me wonder'n about ya there for a minute. I've cleaned a lot of animals and never even considered pushing the knife thru a finger sized bone, joints sure.

 

[Old Hunter]

David, good discussion on sharpening Buck Knives. I would recommend you republish (on this forum) the BCCI article on sharpening you wrote last year for the newsletter. It would be handy for Buck Sub-Forum members to print off and keep. OH

 

[tiguy7]

Since the bone was strong enough to curl your edge, put the bone in a vise and use it to straighten the edge. A strop is not rigid enough to move/shape an edge but will only affect the tip of the curl. You do not want to remove material until the curl is gone/straightened.

 

[David Martin]

if it's an obtuse edge much more than 40 degrees inclusive.......i reprofile...but buck is very good at consistent primary bevels closer to 30 to 40 range so I agree.......no need to do that typically......unless cutting meat with no bones etc. or just want to.....

jb, I rebeveled my s30v Cabelas Alaskan Guide to 30* inclusive. It cuts real slick now but if I processed some of these Cornish with it I would end up with a rolled edge. DM

 

[David Martin]

Ok, you had me wonder'n about ya there for a minute. I've cleaned a lot of animals and never even considered pushing the knife thru a finger sized bone, joints sure.

I do it with the heel of my hand. But not any more, I avoid it and use the hatchet or pruning shears. DM

 

[David Martin]

Since the bone was strong enough to curl your edge, put the bone in a vise and use it to straighten the edge. A strop is not rigid enough to move/shape an edge but will only affect the tip of the curl. You do not want to remove material until the curl is gone/straightened.

tiguy, thanks. The method I employ is a extra fine continuous diamond plate. I back hone first and it usually only takes 1-2 strokes then flip
flip it over and do the other side. Then finish it off using a few lite edge leading strokes. This takes maybe 2 minutes. DM

 

[David Martin]

David, good discussion on sharpening Buck Knives. I would recommend you republish (on this forum) the BCCI article on sharpening you wrote last year for the newsletter. It would be handy for Buck Sub-Forum members to print off and keep. OH

Thank you, OH.
I have written a follow up article to that one. It is on edge maintenance strategies and it is in Larry's files. So, everyone will see it when space
permits. I'll look into the last year's article. DM

 

[tiguy7]

tiguy, thanks. The method I employ is a extra fine continuous diamond plate. I back hone first and it usually only takes 1-2 strokes then flip
flip it over and do the other side. Then finish it off using a few lite edge leading strokes. This takes maybe 2 minutes. DM

All I’m getting at (to make your knives last longer) is straighten the curl as best you can before using any abrasives. That way you won’t be removing the curl material but rather repositioning the curl material.

 

[jbmonkey]

jb, I rebeveled my s30v Cabelas Alaskan Guide to 30* inclusive. It cuts real slick now but if I processed some of these Cornish with it I would end up with a rolled edge. DM

Sir, no secondary micro bevel to 40 total on it......wonder if it would roll or chip on those cornish with a secondary micro bevel a bit wider like 40 or 50 or so inclusive?

 

[300Bucks]

My opinions:
I have always avoided the temptation to use a knife to power thru a joint or rib or breast bone of any game or farm animal. Deer, elk, hogs and even wild turkeys were taken on like a surgeon. As I pushed on the joint, I used a smaller knife to cut cartilage carefully till the joint opened. I think we all have been badly influenced with the one knife for all things movement. It is possible, but woodsmen of the past drug up downed timber and built a fire against the logs and then shoved them into the fire as they burned. Chopping wood noise carried a long distance and being quiet is a survival tool of the past.
I carried a 112 and folding saw for elk and even used a 303 on one occasion. (skinning knife in pack) I think the 'zombie' world has taken over and given rise to the one knife aura. Our forefathers believed in a good hatchet (or axe), for wood and flesh. I have hunted in grizzly country, where a 12 inch blade would do as much good as a 110. The 110 is much lighter. The rifle is always at arms length away or a pistol on the hip insured more of your survival than a big blade. Rambo has done us no favors. In a campground illegal for firearms, a 3/4 axe and a 119 or 110 will defend your family against anything but firearms.

I like a very thin and sharp blade on a multi blade folder but try to avoid using it in the manner that would roll the edge. A fine ceramic rod laid on a flat supporting surface can move your rolled edge back but be careful not to break the rod.

I would also agree with using clever, hatchet or shears for cutting up chickens or forcing your way thru joints. Why insist you must have a knife that will do everything. I carry a small knife, but I carry one every minute of every day and have not had to use it on an attacker of any species yet. Even we Buck brothers look at someone with a big 'pig sticker' on his belt in town at a store with a questioning eye. The light shirt bulge of a concealed pistol on the belt draws less attention now days. 300
PS Sorry for the rant but I just returned from the Blade Show where the survival knife, knife to do anything just about rules. Knives on your belt that hung to your knee, no thanks. Give me a good sword.