Favorite Front Flippers?

[badmatt]

the only one that matters.

REK sparrow.

 

[270ultimate]

Did not expect to scroll through this and end up craving a Toffifay…

 

[Chronovore]

Did not expect to scroll through this and end up craving a Toffifay…

The surprise was how well they pair with a neat glass of rye.

 

[Fripfrop]

I don't have a favorite brand. I have a favorite place. I have yet to come across anything but amazing flippers out of South Africa. I'll have to dig around and post pictures later though.

 

[sgt1372]

Since carpal tunnel surgery of my dominant left-hand, I bought a ZT 0770 CF and am very happy with it.

Old post & I'm not sure if the poster is saying that the 0770 is a "front flipper" or not but FWIW I've got a 0770CF (actually I have 2 of them) & I don't consider it to be a front flipper. If it was, every folder that uses the standard flipper tab would be considered a front flipper.

On the other hand, I once owned a Spyderco Spock which is designed as front flipper, although it is kind of a border line front flipper.

The ones with the knurled lighter blade pivot ends are more what I think of in terms of front flippers:

So, based on these comparisons, I do not own any front flippers.

 

[SwissHeritageCo]

Old post & I'm not sure if the poster is saying that the 0770 is a "front flipper" or not but FWIW I've got a 0770CF (actually I have 2 of them) & I don't consider it to be a front flipper. If it was, every folder that uses the standard flipper tab would be considered a front flipper.

On the other hand, I once owned a Spyderco Spock which is designed as front flipper, although it is kind of a border line front flipper.

The ones with the knurled lighter blade pivot ends are more what I think of in terms of front flippers:

So, based on these comparisons, I do not own any front flippers.

It niggles me to no end that they don't make something like that bottom one with a 3.35-3.5 inch blade. It's all like 2.8-3.0 inches

Praying they don't thin the handle out on the Corgi XL when it's released like they have started doing with the micarta MBK XLC, which looks dumb.

I got the feist xl in micarta and traded it pretty quick. Not a fan of the micarta but it still felt a bit too dainty. Whether it's inlays, blade length, or a front flipper that isn't located in a reachover position... the less is more knife gods conspire against me.

Honestly I'm thinking about saving up for a large sebenza and throwing in the towel.

 

[Chronovore]

It niggles me to no end that they don't make something like that bottom one with a 3.35-3.5 inch blade. It's all like 2.8-3.0 inches

Praying they don't thin the handle out on the Corgi XL when it's released like they have started doing with the micarta MBK XLC, which looks dumb.

I got the feist xl in micarta and traded it pretty quick. Not a fan of the micarta but it still felt a bit too dainty. Whether it's inlays, blade length, or a front flipper that isn't located in a reachover position... the less is more knife gods conspire against me.

Honestly I'm thinking about saving up for a large sebenza and throwing in the towel.

My Feist XL feels sturdy enough for regular use, and I use mine for regular stuff. I don't use it for "hard use" stuff but then again, I don't use any folder for "hard use". If I have to apply a bunch of force, I'll use a fixed blade. If I'm going to be somewhere that I'm more likely to need to apply force, like deeper in the woods than a quick stroll in my back yard or local trails, I bring a fixed blade. (I also keep one in the car.)

What I don't usually like in EDC folders is ultra-thin handles in Micarta like the new Kizer Riverbank that feels downright flimsy. Again, I'm sure it will be fine for normal light-duty EDC stuff. (The 2.5mm blade thickness does feel nice slicing through stuff.) There isn't blade play or lock rock. It just runs very thin slabs of Micarta with highly skeletonized liners. So that's a win on size, weight, or carry footprint when that matters. It just has some body flex that I don't love. Sure, there are lots of knives like that, from all sorts of companies including Benchmade. Just not my cup of tea.

The Sebenza is certainly a work horse but it's not a front flipper. It bugs me because they could make it one. Overall, if CRK made a model more optimized for thumb-flicking, with a front-flipper, or even with a regular flipper, I'd be all over it. The growing arthritis in my aging thumbs keeps me in the world of snappy detents and bearings.

 

[Fripfrop]

The Sebenza is certainly a work horse but it's not a front flipper. It bugs me because they could make it one. Overall, if CRK made a model more optimized for thumb-flicking, with a front-flipper, or even with a regular flipper, I'd be all over it. The growing arthritis in my aging thumbs keeps me in the world of snappy detents and bearings.

I've actually been curious about messing with the pivot on my Zaan. It's got that nice piece that stick out past the top of handles when closed. I'm wondering if it's possible to turn that into a flipper. Has anyone tried?

 

[Chronovore]

I've actually been curious about messing with the pivot on my Zaan. It's got that nice piece that stick out past the top of handles when closed. I'm wondering if it's possible to turn that into a flipper. Has anyone tried?

Good question. I've seen some pretty interesting mods. I've actually seen a couple of different Sebenza hacks that would put it more in my wheelhouse. The straightforward one was a guy milling out to the appropriate depth for a Sebenza to take a particular size of Skiff bearings paired with a thumb stud replacement. The more expensive one was a reblade wherein the replacement blade was optimized for flicking and made to take bearings. While the former was tempting, it's still a lot to put into a knife that already costs over $600 in versions I like.

 

[Fripfrop]

Good question. I've seen some pretty interesting mods. I've actually seen a couple of different Sebenza hacks that would put it more in my wheelhouse. The straightforward one was a guy milling out to the appropriate depth for a Sebenza to take a particular size of Skiff bearings paired with a thumb stud replacement. The more expensive one was a reblade wherein the replacement blade was optimized for flicking and made to take bearings. While the former was tempting, it's still a lot to put into a knife that already costs over $600 in versions I like.

Yeah, I've seen them with spydie holes. I've seen a few on sniffs. But I've still never seen one with a flipper. I can get my zaan to start opening with that little tab and my thumb but it's not smooth enough to flick. I'm tempted to play with the pivot but I'm not sure if I can loosen it enough without introducing blade play.

 

[Chronovore]

Yeah, I've seen them with spydie holes. I've seen a few on sniffs. But I've still never seen one with a flipper. I can get my zaan to start opening with that little tab and my thumb but it's not smooth enough to flick. I'm tempted to play with the pivot but I'm not sure if I can loosen it enough without introducing blade play.

Loosening and tightening to find the sweet spot between good action and solid lock-up is an old quest. One of the things I've most enjoyed in the current era is so many knives just coming that way from the factory. Also, the primary benefit I've found in upgrading knives that already use bearings to Skiff bearings has been in adjusting or widening that sweet spot so that it can be better or more stably attained.

Another thing to think about is that geometry matters for front flippers. It could work. The main risk is if you start pursuing it and find that the size, shape, or maximum leverage just isn't enough for whatever attainable sweet spot in the action. This dovetails with what I was talking about a few posts ago. A front flipper with a smaller tab like the Kizer Agressor can work based on both its position and access relative to the pivot. Others get around it by just using big tabs, like the Kubey Thalia or the Civivi Sokoke by Ray Laconico.

 

[SwissHeritageCo]

My Feist XL feels sturdy enough for regular use, and I use mine for regular stuff. I don't use it for "hard use" stuff but then again, I don't use any folder for "hard use". If I have to apply a bunch of force, I'll use a fixed blade. If I'm going to be somewhere that I'm more likely to need to apply force, like deeper in the woods than a quick stroll in my back yard or local trails, I bring a fixed blade. (I also keep one in the car.)

What I don't usually like in EDC folders is ultra-thin handles in Micarta like the new Kizer Riverbank that feels downright flimsy. Again, I'm sure it will be fine for normal light-duty EDC stuff. (The 2.5mm blade thickness does feel nice slicing through stuff.) There isn't blade play or lock rock. It just runs very thin slabs of Micarta with highly skeletonized liners. So that's a win on size, weight, or carry footprint when that matters. It just has some body flex that I don't love. Sure, there are lots of knives like that, from all sorts of companies including Benchmade. Just not my cup of tea.

The Sebenza is certainly a work horse but it's not a front flipper. It bugs me because they could make it one. Overall, if CRK made a model more optimized for thumb-flicking, with a front-flipper, or even with a regular flipper, I'd be all over it. The growing arthritis in my aging thumbs keeps me in the world of snappy detents and bearings.

My obsession with sturdiness isn't down to my typical use either, more like a practical means of self defense. It's one of the reasons prefer something hovering around 3.5" vs 3".

I doubt I ever have to stab a person, more likely a dog (I take lots of walks). Having that "just in case" makes me feel more complete.

 

[Chronovore]

My obsession with sturdiness isn't down to my typical use either, more like a practical means of self defense. It's one of the reasons prefer something hovering around 3.5" vs 3".

I doubt I ever have to stab a person, more likely a dog (I take lots of walks). Having that "just in case" makes me feel more complete.

That's another thing entirely. I take it you haven't seen my spiel about folding knives being terrible for self defense? Front flippers might be near the bottom of that microcosm but it depends... still, any difference between types of folder is dwarfed by the difference between fixed blade and folder. (That difference in turn is dwarfed by the difference between knife and gun but lots of people have their right to that choice violated.) Depending on what else is legal where a person lives, I'd honestly recommend hitting the gym and/or taking classes over putting faith in a folder for defense.

 

[SwissHeritageCo]

That's another thing entirely. I take it you haven't seen my spiel about folding knives being terrible for self defense? Front flippers might be near the bottom of that microcosm but it depends... still, any difference between types of folder is dwarfed by the difference between fixed blade and folder. (That difference in turn is dwarfed by the difference between knife and gun but lots of people have their right to that choice violated.) Depending on what else is legal where a person lives, I'd honestly recommend hitting the gym and/or taking classes over putting faith in a folder for defense.

I don't edc a gun, I do work out and box... I put faith in sturdy folders that I've tested myself.

Clearly a fixed blade would be better but that's just not practical for me. If I can repeatedly stab a folder into wood as hard as possible (and it holds up), that's good enough for me. No it's not ideal, but it's a very real contingency plan.

 

[lintonindy]

Brown Cortex XL

 

[Chronovore]

I don't edc a gun, I do work out and box... I put faith in sturdy folders that I've tested myself.

Clearly a fixed blade would be better but that's just not practical for me. If I can repeatedly stab a folder into wood as hard as possible (and it holds up), that's good enough for me. No it's not ideal, but it's a very real contingency plan.

Strength of lockup is just one of the concerns with a folder. The bigger ones are immediacy of readiness and risk of error.

This is something that comes up a lot in the gun community. Within the range of guns as self defense tools and responding to threats severe enough to justify their use, time is a major factor. It stretches from realization of the threat to stopping with the threat and it can come down to fractions of a second. So the number of steps and their complexity between those two points matter. Just with guns, factors include things like type of holster, how the holster is mounted, do you get a full grip on the draw, how readily can you move from there to muzzle on target, do you have a manual safety that must be actuated, do you have one in the chamber, etc..

All of that is additionally balanced against odds such as the type of threat, whether you are injured prior to the realization step, whether you have a person, an animal, or a group thereof already on top of you and exerting aggressive force, if you are on the ground or in some other compromised position, etc.. This is where that second issue comes into play: risk of error and potential consequences. For instance, in any of those situations, during the required sequence of steps, is there a concurrent point in which the muzzle is pointing at you or there is a risk of the trigger being actuated?

Apply this to knives. A fixed blade in a good sheath, mounted securely in a way that is easy enough to access, and allows a full grip on the draw is obviously the best. Folders tend to be carried in pockets, almost always require a repositioning of the hand, need to be opened fully and to the point of secure lockup, and have both an extra chance of failure and subsequent risk of injury in that last step. There are certainly differences between types of folder, opening method, etc., and some will be better than others; but the entire class suffers to the point that they become a trap in the flowchart for various types of encounter.

 

[SwissHeritageCo]

Strength of lockup is just one of the concerns with a folder. The bigger ones are immediacy of readiness and risk of error.

This is something that comes up a lot in the gun community. Within the range of guns as self defense tools and responding to threats severe enough to justify their use, time is a major factor. It stretches from realization of the threat to stopping with the threat and it can come down to fractions of a second. So the number of steps and their complexity between those two points matter. Just with guns, factors include things like type of holster, how the holster is mounted, do you get a full grip on the draw, how readily can you move from there to muzzle on target, do you have a manual safety that must be actuated, do you have one in the chamber, etc..

All of that is additionally balanced against odds such as the type of threat, whether you are injured prior to the realization step, whether you have a person, an animal, or a group thereof already on top of you and exerting aggressive force, if you are on the ground or in some other compromised position, etc.. This is where that second issue comes into play: risk of error and potential consequences. For instance, in any of those situations, during the required sequence of steps, is there a concurrent point in which the muzzle is pointing at you or there is a risk of the trigger being actuated?

Apply this to knives. A fixed blade in a good sheath, mounted securely in a way that is easy enough to access, and allows a full grip on the draw is obviously the best. Folders tend to be carried in pockets, almost always require a repositioning of the hand, need to be opened fully and to the point of secure lockup, and have both an extra chance of failure and subsequent risk of injury in that last step. There are certainly differences between types of folder, opening method, etc., and some will be better than others; but the entire class suffers to the point that they become a trap in the flowchart for various types of encounter.

I appreciate the consideration you've put toward this subject

If I carried a fixed blade it would be in a pocket sheath and thus more fiddly to dig for than just a folder clipped to my pocket, it would also require two hands.

For me personally, there is a line of practicality and balance involved. While I would hate to rely on my folder for self defense, I'm going to be carrying one for other uses regardless. Might as well make it compatible as possible for it's intended backup use.

I'm constantly fidgeting with my folders and deploying them, doing so under duress would be a mindless action and second nature. If someone is pointing a gun at me I'm not pulling my knife out, hands would be a better option at that point (or fleeing if at all possible).

For now, a strong folder suits me well. In the future, I might edc a gun (which I do already but usually only when I'm in new orleans for work).

 

[Elite_KG]

REK PM3 - Front Flipper!