Favorite Handle Material

[severedthumbs]

G-BONE!!!







lol

 

[Stephen F]

For damascus fixed blades I tend to prefer walrus ivory. Living in an extremely dry climate I've found that fossil walrus holds up a lot better than mammoth. I wont commission anything with mammoth anymore, though I will buy exisiting pieces with it, if I really like them.
.

This is a little concerning, I remember reading/hearing something similar with regards to long term stability of mammoth - alot of what is being used is fairly new harvest (interms or find/excavation in the ice fields, not from the animal ) and there it is still a bit of unknown territiry interms of how it will react structurally when out of the frozen envirnoment. Can't say I know enough about it, perhaps Don has a view, but your experience is noted.

Stephen

 

[Jon Brand]

I still have these Mammoth Ivory slabs which I don't know what to do with.

 

[RogerP]

I would be cautious using wood handle material on most expensive knives unless planning on keeping long term.

Depends on how you define "expensive". I note that you recommended stag and excluded wood for a carbon steel bowie in the $800 range. That would be an entry-level piece from most master smiths (and from a great many, you couldn't get a full size piece at that price) and you can bet that such a knife would have a wood handle.

A wood-handled carbon steel Fisk Rojo (such as the one I would like to pry from Peter's hands) is an expensive knife to most people. I would not recommend caution in buying such a knife - I would recommend buying two, if you can. And such examples are not limited to Fisk.

You won't find a bigger fan of stag than me - but the good stuff isn't that easy to come by, particularly if we're talking about a nice carver and not morticed scales. I'll take premium wood every day of the week over mediocre stag. I have never passed on a knife because it had a superb piece of wood instead of stag or ivory. But I have passed on many an otherwise good knife that had a middling to poor piece of stag attached to it.

Roger

 

[Kevin Jones]

Depends on how you define "expensive". I note that you recommended stag and excluded wood for a carbon steel bowie in the $800 range. That would be an entry-level piece from most master smiths (and from a great many, you couldn't get a full size piece at that price) and you can bet that such a knife would have a wood handle.

A wood-handled carbon steel Fisk Rojo (such as the one I would like to pry from Peter's hands) is an expensive knife to most people. I would not recommend caution in buying such a knife - I would recommend buying two, if you can. And such examples are not limited to Fisk.

You won't find a bigger fan of stag than me - but the good stuff isn't that easy to come by, particularly if we're talking about a nice carver and not morticed scales. I'll take premium wood every day of the week over mediocre stag. I have never passed on a knife because it had a superb piece of wood instead of stag or ivory. But I have passed on many an otherwise good knife that had a middling to poor piece of stag attached to it.

Roger

To be more precise, IMO wood handle material is not the best choice on most knives of $2000 or more if you are planning to re-sell at some point. There may be a FEW exceptions (the Rojo would be one) where as you mentioned a maker has a model that more than not comes with and is accepted with a wood handle. Another would obviously be makers who only offer expensive knives such as Loveless etc.

When I make a statement like that I'm speaking in general terms, which I think most understand. You can always find an exception or two to disprove any general statement.

As far as stag under vs. wood for under $800, I did NOT "recommend" as you stated, I was only giving my personnel preference. Josh asked for our favorites. If I was being asked for advise on that subject, I would recommend getting the best handle material available within the perimeters of that price range whether it be stag or wood.

I don't think premium stag is as hard to come by as most think. One of my favorite things to do when visiting a maker's shop is to examine his handle material and I usually find LOTS of great stag. I actually prefer the look of mortised or slab stag material on frame construction over carvers and have never had problems with the construction or shrinkage.

Obviously, a maker would rather use his best stag on his more expensive pieces rather that his entry models.
There are certain makers that will use nothing but the best examples no matter what the material. I tend to gravitate towards them.

 

[Doug C]

Carbon Steel Bowie $800+ : Primo wood,Roger and Stephen named most of my faves,I might add ringed Gidgee/Stag.
Damascus Bowie/fighter $1,000+ : Same as above and Walrus tusk/Mammoth.
Bone is out unless it's a repro of an historical example.

Damascus folder $$1,000+ : I'm out but don't find anything to disagree with the handle materials already listed by our experienced folders collectors.

Doug

 

[Stephen F]

To be more precise, IMO wood handle material is not the best choice on most knives of $2000 or more if you are planning to re-sell at some point. There may be a FEW exceptions (the Rojo would be one) where as you mentioned a maker has a model that more than not comes with and is accepted with a wood handle. Another would obviously be makers who only offer expensive knives such as Loveless etc.

I don't find anything in the other responses to this thread that supports this generalisation, even though as a sample it is insignificant. Infact, most people list wood in both the lower and upper criteria, other than those who list ivory and stag as their only choices. In fact a few have responded to say that price is not the factor in choice. You clearly have a preference and state openly you won't buy anything but ivory or stag ...... personal perference is an inaccurate reference for generalisation.

Cheers,

Stephen

 

[Don Hanson III]

I still have these Mammoth Ivory slabs which I don't know what to do with.

Jon, I know exactly what to do with them. Just send them to me

Stephen F Stephen F This is a little concerning, I remember reading/hearing something similar with regards to long term stability of mammoth - alot of what is being used is fairly new harvest (interms or find/excavation in the ice fields, not from the animal ) and there it is still a bit of unknown territiry interms of how it will react structurally when out of the frozen envirnoment. Can't say I know enough about it, perhaps Don has a view, but your experience is noted.

Stephen. As you know, I use a lot of mammoth and have done so for over 12 years. I have learned how to treat it so that there is little to no trouble with this material.

I store the mammoth ivory that I acquire for at lest 1 year and usually 2 or 3 years before I use it. I have had some pieces twist, bow, shrink and crack while curing (drying).

I have had limited success with traditional stabilizing, but have had great success with soaking my ivory in mineral oil for a week or more before using. I do this only after I know it is good and dry.

Also, when a maker shapes, sands and polishes ivory, it is very important to not let the ivory get hot or very warm when working it. Sharp tools and fresh belts are a must.

Mammoth is a nice handle material and I recommend owners of ivory handled knives to apply or soak their handles in mineral oil once a year.

Wood and stag will shrink and deteriorate over time without proper care also.

Good thread, Josh!

 

[Stephen F]

Stephen. As you know, I use a lot of mammoth and have done so for over 12 years. I have learned how to treat it so that there is little to no trouble with this material.

I store the mammoth ivory that I acquire for at lest 1 year and usually 2 or 3 years before I use it. I have had some pieces twist, bow, shrink and crack while curing (drying).

I have had limited success with traditional stabilizing, but have had great success with soaking my ivory in mineral oil for a week or more before using. I do this only after I know it is good and dry.

Also, when a maker shapes, sands and polishes ivory, it is very important to not let the ivory get hot or very warm when working it. Sharp tools and fresh belts are a must.

Mammoth is a nice handle material and I recommend owners of ivory handled knives to apply or soak their handles in mineral oil once a year.

Wood and stag will shrink and deteriorate over time without proper care also.

Good thread, Josh!

Don, Thanks for the insight, thats exactly the sort of knowledge and skill I was referring to when I said the following in a an earlier post. :thumbup:

A BIG consideration for me is stability and longevity - and this can have alot to do with the makers knowledge and skill in preparation and treatment.

Stephen

Understanding a makers approach and experience in things such as handle material preparation also leads to a better understanding of the value of experience and what goes into that makers knives. Collectors come to understand and value this when they evaluate work and ultimately prices! .... and if your unsure Don ..... thats a compliment:thumbup:

Stephen

 

[RogerP]

To be more precise, IMO wood handle material is not the best choice on most knives of $2000 or more if you are planning to re-sell at some point. There may be a FEW exceptions (the Rojo would be one) where as you mentioned a maker has a model that more than not comes with and is accepted with a wood handle. Another would obviously be makers who only offer expensive knives such as Loveless etc.

That's why I said it depends on how you define "expensive". The further north of $2k one gets, the less likely wood wil be used - perhaps we can agree on that.

When I make a statement like that I'm speaking in general terms, which I think most understand. You can always find an exception or two to disprove any general statement.

I would suggest that the exceptions are greater in number than one or two - particularly in reference to your earlier comment.

As far as stag under vs. wood for under $800, I did NOT "recommend" as you stated, I was only giving my personnel preference. Josh asked for our favorites. If I was being asked for advise on that subject, I would recommend getting the best handle material available within the perimeters of that price range whether it be stag or wood.

Must have taken a sharp knife to split that hair - how is that not a recommendation? And your "caution" to avoid wood-handled "expensive knives" was what, exactly?

And if you come across any stag-handled master-smith bowies in the $800 range that you choose to pass on, please give me a heads-up.

I don't think premium stag is as hard to come by as most think. One of my favorite things to do when visiting a maker's shop is to examine his handle material and I usually find LOTS of great stag. I actually prefer the look of mortised or slab stag material on frame construction over carvers and have never had problems with the construction or shrinkage.

That's not what I'm hearing. I know a few makers with a pretty good stash - but that stash is not being replenished. If fantastic stag were in abundant supply we would be seeing it used in abundance. I'm not seeing that. The top grade pieces stand out for the very reason that they are uncommon.

Obviously, a maker would rather use his best stag on his more expensive pieces rather that his entry models.
There are certain makers that will use nothing but the best examples no matter what the material. I tend to gravitate towards them.

Agree here - whatever material is selected - wood, stag, ivory - should be a premium example of its kind before I make a purchase.

Roger

 

[RogerP]

Mammoth is a nice handle material and I recommend owners of ivory handled knives to apply or soak their handles in mineral oil once a year.

Don, this is good advice - and something Fisk recommended to me a couple years ago. Given the dry furnace heating of a long winter, I have taken to practice of doing the mineral oil immersion twice during the course of the season - at the begining (as soon as central heating comes into play), and then again first thing in the new year. So far, so good.

Roger

 

[gk2410]

My choice, 95% of the time, is stag. The only drawback is that what I picture coming on the knife and what I get are too often different. It's tough to go through a wait for a knife then have it come with what I consider sub-standard handle material, and I end up dumping the knife. I can't always blame the maker, because GOOD natural stag is often hard to get, and even when it's available, it often comes down to what I like vs. what someone else likes. I especially don't like the dyed stag when it appears almost transparent in some places from the oil (?) that has been introduced.

My second choice, and equally subjective on appearance, are the ivories with some 'bark' material left on for character.

Woods are my last choice, and don't even mention giraffe bone!

 

[Jon Brand]

Jon, I know exactly what to do with them. Just send them to me

Don thats actually tempting, as you would do something much nicer to it then I ever could. Especially with it just sitting in my closet.. I have no idea how those would actually look when on a knife.

 

[RogerP]

I have no idea how those would actually look when on a knife.

Pretty darned good, I'd say.

Roger

 

[Don Hanson III]

Roger, two oil treatments is better than one, and like you said, that dry central heat is a killer for natural handle materials.

Jon, believe me, those scales would look very good on a knife

 

[Kevin Jones]

I don't find anything in the other responses to this thread that supports this generalisation, even though as a sample it is insignificant.

Just my opinion support or not. Even though they are extremely nice, try to sell your expensive wood handled pieces and let us know how it goes? Just saying that the majority of collectors buying knives in the thousands are not looking for wood handles.

Infact, most people list wood in both the lower and upper criteria, other than those who list ivory and stag as their only choices. In fact a few have responded to say that price is not the factor in choice. You clearly have a preference and state openly you won't buy anything but ivory or stag ...... personal perference is an inaccurate reference for generalisation.

Where did I state I won't buy anything but ivory or stag???? Below is what I said.

Love great stag and ivory. Like ironwood too even though I have never own a knife with it. Even have liked the dreaded giraffe bone on occasion.

Carbon Steel Bowie $800+ range: Stag; natural and amber

Damascus Bowie/Fighter: $1000+range: Rich colorful mammoth and walrus ivories and premium amber stag.

Damascus Folder: $1000+range: Rich colorful mammoth and walrus ivories.

Cheers,

Stephen

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[Justin.Mercier]

I love dark woods like ironwood, cocobola, really dark rosewoods, and mammoth ivory and other nice natural materials, some antler and other things. I think that some people actually use some woods and other materials that are far too bussy for the knife that they're on which, for me at least, detracts from the knife. Some nice burlwood is great for some blades, but for other blades it really doesnt do anything for me.

 

[Kevin Jones]

That's why I said it depends on how you define "expensive". The further north of $2k one gets, the less likely wood wil be used - perhaps we can agree on that.

Yes agree. Not sure our buddy Stephen would agree though.

I would suggest that the exceptions are greater in number than one or two - particularly in reference to your earlier comment.

Maybe a few more, but all I could come up with in a few minutes.

Must have taken a sharp knife to split that hair - how is that not a recommendation? And your "caution" to avoid wood-handled "expensive knives" was what, exactly?
That was a reccamendation in that post.


And if you come across any stag-handled master-smith bowies in the $800 range that you choose to pass on, please give me a heads-up.

Here's one I'm very partial to for $700 on Blade Gallery. Not that hard to find. http://www.bladegallery.com/shopexd.asp?id=85507

That's not what I'm hearing. I know a few makers with a pretty good stash - but that stash is not being replenished. If fantastic stag were in abundant supply we would be seeing it used in abundance. I'm not seeing that. The top grade pieces stand out for the very reason that they are uncommon.

I see quite a bit of it.

Agree here - whatever material is selected - wood, stag, ivory - should be a premium example of its kind before I make a purchase.

See we agree sometimes.
Roger

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[RogerP]

Here's one I'm very partial to for $700 on Blade Gallery. Not that hard to find. http://www.bladegallery.com/shopexd.asp?id=85507

Beautiful piece, but some would argue that a knife with a 4 1/4" blade is not a bowie.

Roger

 

[Stephen F]

Where did I state I won't buy anything but ivory or stag???? Below is what I said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Jones
Love great stag and ivory. Like ironwood too even though I have never own a knife with it. Even have liked the dreaded giraffe bone on occasion.

Sorry Kevin, I seem to remember you saying that you "kinda stick with stag and ivory handle material" once, but I may be confused, and looking at your collection I also see a few ramhorn and bone, I guess that is the "kinda" part. But you have to admit your collection of pictures is "kinda" focused (not a bad thing, just personal choice): 100% Damascus: 85% either Stag or Ivory, 15% horn or bone, 0% Wood: 50% from one maker. Whatever your words say, your collection also speaks. This is your reference point and your basis for "advice" and "recommendations". Your view is respected, BUT, you have to accept that with such a focused perspective your points of intersect with other collectors will be fewer, this is not a personal issue, but a matter of fact.

Having said that, I may be wrong, as I have to admit I have trouble keeping up with you at times!

Today:

When I make a statement like that [re: Wood] I'm speaking in general terms, which I think most understand.

Another day:

......However I don't like to generalize or make blanket statements regarding knives. I think each knife or knife design needs to stand on its own merit. Just like the handle material thread where many were suggesting that "wood handles should never be used on high end knives". It depends on the high end knife.

Stephen