Favorite Stainless Steel for Rough Use? Opinions on Lam. CoS versus 3V?

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NiceNife

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What's your favorite stainless steel for bushcrafting or other rough uses? I've heard that S35VN and Elmax can be chippy (and don't roll) and difficult to strop up in the field. I'm looking for a relatively tough steel that isn't too chippy because I plan to baton with it and it will come into contact with bone regularly.

What are your opinions with Fallkniven's laminated CoS and how does it compare with CPM 3V in terms of toughness and edge retention? Are the stainless properties in lam CoS worth the difference? The reason why I ask this is because I've been really fixated on finding a new 3V knife, but also heard that Fallkniven is coming out with new models with the lam. CoS steel in the future.
 
I would expect the CoS to perform similar to the other stainless steels mentioned, no where close in toughness, however for something F1 in size, I'm not sure that's as important compared to a chopper or even camp size knife (6"-8"). Edge retention in the CoS will probably be a little better, edge and blade geometry will make a bigger difference.
 
Elmax is the toughest powder stainless steel, with the possible exception of the new Vanax SuperClean. If any stainless won't chip, it's going to be Elmax. Great stuff.

As Skyhorse said, 3V is not stainless, but it's not bad. In my experience, 3V rusts with surface rust, which is easily removed.

And M...466 is right about geometry.

Still, Elmax is awesome stainless steel.
 
elmax is 1.7% carbon... I don't think it is known for being particularly tough as a result. (I agree that it is great stuff, overall)

it still only manages to get to the low 20's foot-pound wise in charpy v notch tests: http://www.bucorp.com/media/Toughness_testing_for_knife_steels.pdf
but this old BF thread explains the charpy's are not equivalent: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/toughness-of-s35vn-and-elmax.1503215/

I expect sandvik 14c28n is higher in toughness... but for some reason, sandvik does NOT publish any charpy test results for it that I could find
https://www.materials.sandvik/en/materials-center/material-datasheets/strip-steel/14c28n/

but with 0.62% carbon, and around 0.1% nitrogen, it really should do better in toughness than elmax

found Larrin's tests! AEB-L is the toughest stainless tested :) about double elmax

toughness-summary.jpg
 
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Elmax is the toughest of the powder stainless steels, with the possible exception of Vanax SuperClean. If you look at the chart in the first link you provided, you'll see that Elmax, even at 59Rc, is much tougher than 440C, 154CM, CPM 154, S30V and S35VN (the other steels, except 440C, are listed by their composition names).

You can find tougher steels, but they are either non-stainless or ingot stainless that won't hold an edge as well.



dirc said:
elmax is 1.7% carbon... I don't think it is known for being particularly tough as a result. (I agree that it is great stuff, overall)

it still only manages to get to the low 20's foot-pound wise in charpy v notch tests: http://www.bucorp.com/media/Toughness_testing_for_knife_steels.pdf
but this old BF thread explains the charpy's are not equivalent: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/toughness-of-s35vn-and-elmax.1503215/

I expect sandvik 14c28n is higher in toughness... but for some reason, sandvik does NOT publish any charpy test results for it that I could find
https://www.materials.sandvik/en/materials-center/material-datasheets/strip-steel/14c28n/

but with 0.62% carbon, and around 0.1% nitrogen, it really should do better in toughness than elmax

found Larrin's tests! AEB-L is the toughest stainless tested :) about double elmax

toughness-summary.jpg
Click to expand...
 
yes, but I was responding to the original post also - toughest stainless - where no mention of a powder is required
 
I haven’t tested any Elmax or Vanax yet. I would be surprised if they are tougher than AEB-L but I am excited to test everything. The Bucorp toughness testing shows very surprising and perhaps even questionable results but I will reserve judgment until I can actually test Elmax. As for CoS it is likely to behave similarly to steels in its same general category: 154CM, 440C, etc.
 
dirc said:
elmax is 1.7% carbon... I don't think it is known for being particularly tough as a result. (I agree that it is great stuff, overall)

it still only manages to get to the low 20's foot-pound wise in charpy v notch tests: http://www.bucorp.com/media/Toughness_testing_for_knife_steels.pdf
but this old BF thread explains the charpy's are not equivalent: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/toughness-of-s35vn-and-elmax.1503215/

I expect sandvik 14c28n is higher in toughness... but for some reason, sandvik does NOT publish any charpy test results for it that I could find
https://www.materials.sandvik/en/materials-center/material-datasheets/strip-steel/14c28n/

but with 0.62% carbon, and around 0.1% nitrogen, it really should do better in toughness than elmax

found Larrin's tests! AEB-L is the toughest stainless tested :) about double elmax

toughness-summary.jpg
Click to expand...
Great technical info — thanks for the write-up.

Can anyone testify, in their own experience, whether or not Elmax has microchipped while batonning or dressing deer? What about its difficulty in sharpening with a waterstone or compound on a strop?

I’m still curious about people’s experience with Fallkniven or Spyderco’s laminated CoS steel and whether that steel stands up to abuse in the field. How does it compare to 3V or Elmax?
 
CoS steel is not in the same category as 440. Maybe on paper, but not in performance. I don't own anything in CoS, but from people who have used it, it would seem that edge retention is a lot better than VG-10, it's just as easy to sharpen, and it takes an extremely fine edge. With Fallkniven's heat treat and lamination, it should be very tough. I haven't heard any complaints about CoS, nor any chipping horror stories (as there are about VG-10). That said, I haven't heard reliable information on how chippy the edge is as compared to VG-10. It is hardened to 60hrc. I'm sure it's more brittle than your average cpm 3V knife. Still, 3V is harder to sharpen and can rust. So it's a trade off. I know CoS could easily handle batoning, but I'm not sure about bones. If you're going to beat the hell out of your knife, I bet 3V would serve you better. But if you live in a wet climate and care more about easy maintenance and general performance, I would go with CoS: it's an exceptional stainless steel from what I've heard.
 
12c27 is a good ol' trusted "tough" stainless steel for fixed blades... AND it resists rust pretty darn well...

Not sure about 8cr13mov being it's "cousin" though, in any more sense then ALL steels are cousins to one another. 8cr has different carbon levels + vanadium, nickel, and molybdenum addes, whereas 12c27 is basic carbon and chromium.
Not saying 8cr13mov is "bad stuff", just a totally different chemical makeup altogether. The problem with 8cr13mov isn't in the mixture on paper, made right it performs just fine, but rather the issue in the consistency of the manufacturing process itself, whether it is from a reputable source or not...
 
A few minutes ago I took the leap and bought an F1 in CoS. $199.95 So yeah guys, pray for me. I have high hopes for the knife, based on the incredible reputation of the F1, and almost 100% positive feedback about CoS steel. It sounds like CoS looses nothing to VG-10, and gains the ability for a finer edge, better edge retention, and probably some toughness. I've seen CoS steel cut through bricks and steel and not chip, so I'm pretty confident. It's still a brittle steel compared to good carbon steels, but I think it will serve me well. I'll certainty post with any observations after use.
 
I have found that AEB-L is very impressive ... it takes an extremely good edge ... it sharpens easily ... and though I have not used it to baton wood ... I have used to to field dress and process wild game ... and it holds up well.

So AEB-L is growing on me and I have been trying a few different knives in this steel ... so far I really like it.

I haven't used it for thr same things but I doubt it woud be as touch as D3V ... but if you want stainless ... it would be my choice to try.

- JJ
 
Well the knives I usually jab into a huge pile of rocks to drop material tend to be made out of 4116 Krupp (cold steel Kudo) or Aus8 (Kabar Dozier). Usually the cold steel as it's quicker to resharpen,

Hard use to me means you are or potentially are destroying your edge and the ability to resharpen easily take priority over edge retention.
 
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