Favorite steel family to use and sharpen

[maximus83]

So for the fans of soft stainless, I'm curious if anybody sees any SIGNIFICANT different between these 3 very popular flavors of soft stainless. Assume in all cases, excellent heat treat, and a good edge, so we're comparing at similar quality level regardless of steel choice.

Among well done blades I have in each of these, I cannot tell any major difference in use or sharpening.

* Sandvik 12c27
* Aus-8
* 420HC

 

[adamlau]

Assuming the above and the same exact blade profile and geometry, I honestly do not believe that anyone can tell the difference

 

[jpm2]

Interesting, non stainless has a slight edge in the poll.

 

[adamlau]

I figure those who frequent this forum are more seasoned users who value ease of maintenance and do not mind sharpening.

 

[jpm2]

But only 37 votes so far.

 

[adamlau]

So little traffic here, yet so much useful information. It is a bit sad

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

So for the fans of soft stainless, I'm curious if anybody sees any SIGNIFICANT different between these 3 very popular flavors of soft stainless. Assume in all cases, excellent heat treat, and a good edge, so we're comparing at similar quality level regardless of steel choice.

Among well done blades I have in each of these, I cannot tell any major difference in use or sharpening.

* Sandvik 12c27
* Aus-8
* 420HC

Regarding the Sandvik 12C27Mod used in Opinels specifically, I've noticed a uniqueness in it's ability to retain some aggressive bite even when taken pretty high in finish. As compared to a steel like 420HC in particular (i.e., Case, Buck), the 420HC tends to lose a lot of bite (or 'teeth') if taken much beyond ~600-grit or so; it's pretty easy to overpolish it, and it loses it's teeth pretty early in a grit progression above 400-600 or so. In the AUS-8 blades I do have (SOG, for example), they behave similarly to the 420HC in that regard, but maybe hang on a little better than the 420HC. But I've noticed in the Opinels, I can take them to 1200-2000 in polish, and the edge still retains an amazing ability to grab the edge or even the face of a sheet of phonebook paper with no slipping or hesitation. I haven't seen that in other stainless of similar composition. I sort of assume that's due to the Sandvik's reputation for very uniform & fine grain (but I don't know for certain, to be honest). But every time I resharpen the Opinel, I notice it again.


David

 

[maximus83]

^Cool, that's the kind of info based on use that I was wondering. Good thing to remember especially on the Buck/Gerber 420HC that I have, I'll try just stopping at lower grits, say my AF 400, and not go any higher with those. I had noticed what you said on a few of my 420HC Bucks, I would get them shaving sharp on the AF, then go to say DMF EF (1200) and things would actually get WORSE, which really had me scratching my head.

On the Aus-8, yes I have that in a SOG too (an older Pentagon Elite folder) and in some recently purchased Ontario Rat folders that I am really pleased with the quality of, for such low priced folders. This Aus-8 seems to sharpen up very easily and takes a good edge on the Rat folders. I have not been able to use it enough yet to observe edge durability. Cutting performance is VERY good though, these are excellent bang-for-the-buck Aus-8 folders that I'd recommend to folks looking for an economical, easy-to-maintain folder.

 

[maximus83]

As compared to a steel like 420HC in particular (i.e., Case, Buck), the 420HC tends to lose a lot of bite (or 'teeth') if taken much beyond ~600-grit or so; it's pretty easy to overpolish it, and it loses it's teeth pretty early in a grit progression above 400-600 or so.
David

Hey David, based on your working with these soft steels like 420HC: Do you even find much point in stropping them on compound, after sharpening on a lower grit stone in the 400-600 range? Given their attributes, you wonder if stropping with compound just takes the bite off the toothiness as well.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Does the ‘softer’ stainless includes VG10?

 

[adamlau]

Rather, by virtue of the poll query, is VG-10 @ 60 RC softer or harder than Elmax @ 58 RC ?

 

[maximus83]

Does the ‘softer’ stainless includes VG10?

It looks like I can't add to the poll option text, but yes, I would've put it with the 'softer' stainless somewhat in the same ballpark as 154.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Rather, by virtue of the poll query, is VG-10 @ 60 RC softer or harder than Elmax @ 58 RC ?

Since the HRC numbers reference the hardness of the steel matrix, and not the carbides within it, VG-10 @ 60 RC is harder than the Elmax @ 58 RC. The carbides in Elmax would (or should) give it greater wear-resistance than VG-10, however.


David

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Hey David, based on your working with these soft steels like 420HC: Do you even find much point in stropping them on compound, after sharpening on a lower grit stone in the 400-600 range? Given their attributes, you wonder if stropping with compound just takes the bite off the toothiness as well.

I used to strop 420HC on leather with green compound, using the sueded side of a leather belt I'd loaded with the green in roughly half of the belt's length, leaving the other half bare. I typically sharpened the steel up to ~320-600 grit on the stones. I figured out, pretty soon, that even the green compound on leather stripped the toothy bite out of it's edge pretty fast. So now, I use essentially no compound on leather when I strop 420HC; the leather itself is enough, usually, to clean up any burrs left. That's all I want or need with 420HC. I still use that same leather belt, but confine most of the stropping to the end without any compound. The portion I previously loaded (lightly) with green compound still has a faint green tint to it; but I haven't recharged it with any new compound in a long while, and I likely won't.

I give the same treatment to blades in simpler carbon steels like 1095 and CV, as well.

The stainless Opinel, with it's Sandvik 12C27Mod, responds nicely to a greater polish, as I mentioned. I strop it using denim with one or another of aluminum oxide compounds, one of which is white rouge (2-5 micron, as it's labelled), and the other is a slightly more aggressive & coarser grey compound made for 'regular cleaning' of stainless steels, from Sears (Craftsman brand).


David

 

[HeavyHanded]

So for the fans of soft stainless, I'm curious if anybody sees any SIGNIFICANT different between these 3 very popular flavors of soft stainless. Assume in all cases, excellent heat treat, and a good edge, so we're comparing at similar quality level regardless of steel choice.

Among well done blades I have in each of these, I cannot tell any major difference in use or sharpening.

* Sandvik 12c27
* Aus-8
* 420HC

Aus8 is at the bottom for edge retention, 12c27 at the top. 420hc is the easiest to sharpen of the three.

Significant? not really, but they are definitely different.

 

[maximus83]

Kind of makes you wonder why more US makers aren't using flavors of Sandvik for their lower and mid-priced blades. Lots of them are using some of the Chinese low-end stainless offerings like [x]Cr13MoV, but in my experience, while this stuff is easy to get super sharp, edge retention is terrible.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Kind of makes you wonder why more US makers aren't using flavors of Sandvik for their lower and mid-priced blades. Lots of them are using some of the Chinese low-end stainless offerings like [x]Cr13MoV, but in my experience, while this stuff is easy to get super sharp, edge retention is terrible.

When making it in China it makes sense to use Chinese steel.
I still wonder if Kizer VG10 is really VG10, and lots of Chinese S35VN, D2, etc. are true or actually Chinese versions of them.

I choose Others cause I like VG10, but also M4, 52100, ZDP, HAP40 and Superblue. I find these not a struggle to get to sharpness I like.

 

[maximus83]

There are knives made in China using Sandvik too. Realsteel for one. But what's implied in your comment is it's about cost and profit margin, and totally agree with that.

 

[Ben Dover]

I have an all time favorite steel. Carpenter Maxamet at RC 69-70. Holds an edge as well as CPM Rex-121, but much easier to sharpen.

 

[maximus83]

Aus8 is at the bottom for edge retention, 12c27 at the top. 420hc is the easiest to sharpen of the three.

How do you see a really well heat treated 420HC, like Buck or Gerber's US made knives such as Strongarm, stacking up against something like Sandvik for edge retention, toughness, etc?