Feedback and harsh criticism (WIP-done)

[Sandeggo]

That knife might wind up using something other than walnut for the scales. What length is the handle? I'll see if I have anything a little prettier you can use. Left mosaic pin looks nicer btw

I really really appreciate the offer, however my skill level is not ready for pretty.
With that being said, I was looking at the various drop point hunters here on the board and online and was noticing a lot of makers will only use one mosaic pin, usually a third pin in the center of 2 corby fasteners. Is it weird to use 2? I'm still learning the unwritten rules.

 

[Sandeggo]

Started this afternoon out by marking the spine with blue sharpie, marking a center line, and laying out my filing marks intermittent 1/4". Then I decided I wanted to try a vine pattern as I haven't done one yet.
Started with a round needle file to get things started.

Then angled the file to get a oval type cut

Then forward of the oval cut I make a cut for the thorns or leafs or whatever with a triangle file

Then I blend the portion in front of the thorn cuts up to the oval. I tried many different files and didn't really get one that worked better than the other. (What do the pros use?)

Yeah there's a few spots I goofed up and I want to make the vine flow a little better and thinner, but my palm is sore from the crappy harbor freight file, so enough of that for today.(see I'm learning patience)
Well this is way too much material to remove

So then I took a fat slab of walnut, clamped it to my angle I use for grinding bevels, and ripped it down on my portaband/ homemade vertical bandsaw. It's just a 3/8" piece of aluminum that mounts in place of the factory guard. I clamp it to my workbench and use a big zip tie to engage the trigger. The zip tie slips on once the trigger is depressed and then slips right back off. But I digress, pic of my ripping setup.

I got all wonky with the cut in one spot, and when I pulled a measurement with the digital caliper, the lowest low spot was .250"... Badass!!! I mean ummm I meant to do that. So then I put both scales on my mill and trued them up nice and flat.
There that's a little better

So 2 mosaics? The left one from the first page
Also should I get some liner material? Which color?

 

[Lo/Rez]

Nice looking work.

 

[Fletch Helical]

I really really appreciate the offer, however my skill level is not ready for pretty.
With that being said, I was looking at the various drop point hunters here on the board and online and was noticing a lot of makers will only use one mosaic pin, usually a third pin in the center of 2 corby fasteners. Is it weird to use 2? I'm still learning the unwritten rules.

There's no "rules" to making a knife really you can use do it however you like, it's you creation. To buy them mosaic pins are pricy for what you get so possible some are doing it to make the cost a bit lower and save material. The thing to remember when using a mosaic is make sure when you set them they are "clocked" properly. In other words they're identical in terms of the pattern facing the same way on every pin. Even if it's one pin, if there is a specific pattern to it you want to make sure it's not half cocked in there. Worse is multiple pins with the pattern all wonky from one to the next. When you set it make them a tad longer than they need to be for the scales. Then make a cut in them with a hacksaw This will allow you to orientate the "north/south" position of the pin and also rotate the position of it easily enough with a flat head screwdriver.

Your skill level is plenty ready to put a nice set of stabilized burl scales on this instead of the walnut ones but if you insist.

 

[Sandeggo]

There's no "rules" to making a knife really you can use do it however you like, it's you creation. To buy them mosaic pins are pricy for what you get so possible some are doing it to make the cost a bit lower and save material. The thing to remember when using a mosaic is make sure when you set them they are "clocked" properly. In other words they're identical in terms of the pattern facing the same way on every pin. Even if it's one pin, if there is a specific pattern to it you want to make sure it's not half cocked in there. Worse is multiple pins with the pattern all wonky from one to the next. When you set it make them a tad longer than they need to be for the scales. Then make a cut in them with a hacksaw This will allow you to orientate the "north/south" position of the pin and also rotate the position of it easily enough with a flat head screwdriver.

Your skill level is plenty ready to put a nice set of stabilized burl scales on this instead of the walnut ones but if you insist.

Genius idea scoring the pins to use a screwdriver to clock them. Thank you for that! I would love some burl scales but my scale shaping needs work to do them justice. I am really enjoying the drop point knife so far(my favorite design) so I guarantee I'll be making more. Tell you what, if this one comes out good, you can send me the scales, and I'll send them back to you with a knife attached. Oh and I forgot to add earlier, this one is about 8" OAL with a 3-3/4" blade I believe.

 

[Fletch Helical]

Sounds like a plan. When you're ready let me know I'll get your email and I'll get something sent out to you. I learned that tip on the pins from Stacy on here so just passing the knowledge on. Also good trick for figuring out how to shape your scales is modeling clay or Play-Doh. Slap some on either side of the blank and you can play around with how you'd want your scales to be. Great for learning where things like palm swells feel best or any other shape you want the handle to be. Check out a lot of the knives in the gallery section from makers and you can get a lot of ideas.

 

[Sandeggo]

Today in the garage started with surfacing the opposite sides of the brass guards to remove the beat up oxidized surface from when it was bar stock. Then I proceeded to rough out the radius on the guards. Then I started fitting up the scales. So I'm not very superstitious but this morning I was reading nick wheelers Bowie thread where he had to scrap his handle, coupled with fletch's offer to send me scales but I totally blew it on my scales today. The very first hole I did made them trash. It pulled the material around the pin hole. I assume the problem is that my drill bits are super dull. I've never had this problem with this exact same walnut before. But I trudged on anyways. So I roughed in my guards on the mill and cut down the pins to rough size to get an idea of what this sorry knife will look like. No I haven't started beveling this blade yet. Normally I do but I wanted to work on my handle fit up and design more than my beveling. I know people love pics so here goes nothing.

Preview of what the spine might look like, I'm thinking liners will be good

Junk

More junk

So I'm not even interested in repairing these and I'll be scrapping them. It's not much time lost. It's just a bummer because I like the color of the wood against the brass

 

[NickWheeler]

Looking good.

One major change I would suggest... especially since you're working with an oil hardening steel (I love O1, BTW): Wait to do your bolster and handle fit-up/shaping until after heat treating.

You are going to get some dimensional changes simply due to the nature of the heat treating, as well as some small changes due to scale and such.

So in MHO--- finish the blade out, THEN fit-up your bolsters and peen them in place, THEN do your scale fit-up and shaping.

Order of operations can make these things hard, harder, or damn near impossible.

Of course you don't have to do it the way I mentioned, but I certainly think it will be the easiest way to get the best results.

If this is #7 and 8, I think you're off to a great start. :thumbup:

 

[Sandeggo]

Looking good.

One major change I would suggest... especially since you're working with an oil hardening steel (I love O1, BTW): Wait to do your bolster and handle fit-up/shaping until after heat treating.

You are going to get some dimensional changes simply due to the nature of the heat treating, as well as some small changes due to scale and such.

So in MHO--- finish the blade out, THEN fit-up your bolsters and peen them in place, THEN do your scale fit-up and shaping.

Order of operations can make these things hard, harder, or damn near impossible.

Of course you don't have to do it the way I mentioned, but I certainly think it will be the easiest way to get the best results.

If this is #7 and 8, I think you're off to a great start. :thumbup:

You must've heard your name said in here! Lol
Yeah I am just roughing stuff in until I can dedicate a few hours to get the bevel in place. I'm using a harbor freight grinder until I can finish cnc plasma cutting out my grinder parts. So it takes a while to grind. I really appreciate your feedback in my thread. I just read your Damascus build for like the 3rd time and watched a bunch of your videos last night. The only negative is your attention to detail is making it difficult to be lazy. (Hence why I'm scrapping these) thanks for the input

 

[Mitchell Knives]

Looks great so far!

 

[Fletch Helical]

Looks like you had some blowout when you drilled the scales too. Wrap them with painters tape when you drill them it'll help eliminate that.

 

[Sandeggo]

The first peck splintered on the top pretty bad and that's when I knew they were scrap so I didn't even bother wasting the tape. I proceeded to drill the other holes and rough shape it for practice lining everything up and to get an idea of what everything will look like. Once I got it all together I realized that 1/4" scales are really thin for my skull level, I am sitting here looking at these saying how in the &@$! Am I gonna get shape on these lol. I have a plan for this afternoon, we will see how it goes. Stay tuned
Question, I have seen people fill the spine filework with epoxy to make a nice flat spine and highlight the filework, then sand smooth. If I were to do that would I fill the handle area, all the way up to the edge of where the brass bolsters meet the blade?

 

[Sandeggo]

Well after work I went to the hardwood store by my house as they have some exotics. Normally I just check out the scrap/cutoff bin but today I asked them if they'll sell cuts from the boards they have. Yes they do! So I picked up a foot of zebrawood for roughly $12. Plenty to do multiple knives. I decided to spend $12 cause I found out I'll be getting a minimum 1200 per month raise at work next month. So all in all today was a good day!

I wasted no time cutting a chunk out big enough for the scales then ripped it down the center to get a book match. The wood is .93 so plenty of meat on the bone. Drilled the holes. This time I didn't care if it tore out on the holes because I'll be sanding it down anyways. I'm really liking the grain along the spine and the rest of the scale. It's matching up pretty well and it makes me happy after yesterday's debacle.

And then I started to bevel the blade, no I'm not doing it with the scales on.

 

[Fletch Helical]

Just an FYI and I'm not overly familiar with Zebrawood but just using a random piece of hardwood from a store I'd be concerned about the possibility of it moving a bit as it dries. I'm not well versed in that or many unstabilized woods but something to keep in mind. I have used natural hardwood on knives before but I feel getting them from a place that specializes in blocks for knife makers I feel they check the moisture content of them and are confident they won't move. Could be totally wrong on that and I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me can chime in if I'm off on that.

Can't answer filling the filework with epoxy as I've never done it. I also know some people will add a powder dye to it like a black for instance on dark scales or with black liners to make it look more filled in. I'm sure someone who has done it will chime in. Looking good so far though.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Looking at your knife reminds me of stuff I have made. I have on occasion had problems if I have drilled my pin holes too close to the size of my pin stock. They fit together before heat treat, but not after.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/843158-The-Dang-Holes-Keep-Shrinking!!!

 

[Augus7us]

Just an FYI and I'm not overly familiar with Zebrawood but just using a random piece of hardwood from a store I'd be concerned about the possibility of it moving a bit as it dries

I imagine it should be dried if they are not cutting the timber themselves, otherwise they may be drying it themselves and it could have moisture in it. You can get a moisture meter if you want to be sure, it measures an electrical current based on how much water is in the wood. A decent one is about 80$.

Sandeggo when ripping your wood clamp your angle iron to the table and use it as a fence. If you know this and don't do it because its a pita, I understand Marking a few of your more common cuts on the ends of your bandsaw table helps make it a little quicker. If you do that be sure to make yourself a push stick to push the wood through on the side of with the fence so your hand doesn't get to close to the blade.

Otherwise good looking stuff so far! Never heard epoxy over jimping before. I'm sure someone has but if not try it out so we can see what it looks like!

 

[Sandeggo]

Well I spent most of the day in the garage workin on this dang thing. I hear treated and tempered the blade, sanded the blade, finished the bevels, and got it all glued up and started shaping the handles. I really need a wood rasp. I touched up the filework too. Not bad for a rain day. In regards to the wood, the shop only sells exotic wood and timber hardwoods. This stuff is very dry.

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[PT Doc]

Would it be out of line to turn this into a WIP?
I brought some varying dia filler home from work.. I mean the welding supply to try my hand at mosaic pins. Well that's very tedious work without a vacuum pump and money is tight. Anyways I got 2 different styles done with slow cure epoxy so those will have to wait until tomorrow. Then I had read earlier about putting a chamfer on the inside holes of guards so I did just that. Also drilled the holes for my pins and the thong. Then I squared up and filed the spine. My plan for this DPH is to use mosaic pins, maybe a liner, and a little filework on the spine. I do not plan to file the whole spine, just about an inch in front of the guards to the center of the thong hole. And of course, walnut scales. I am hoping to have an etcher put together to finish this one off, but we will see how the thing turns out.

I bought like to buy the beautiful abstract ship painting on the white canvas.

 

[Sandeggo]

One little slip up makes me loathe knifemaking sometimes. It takes a project you've sunk hours into creating and turns it into something you want to throw away. I was hoping this would be my best knife to date, but I am not happy with a few things already and it's not even done yet. Yesterday I spent quite a while putting a nice compound radius on the leading edge of the bolsters. Profiled, sanded, and finished so that I wouldn't have issues with them and wouldn't have to touch them when glued and peened. Somewhere along the way I decided to touch up the blade portion of the guard that the bolsters will cover and it changed the profile just enough that when I glued and peened the bolsters in place, the blade material was lower than my pretty brass bolsters. Now it looked like $@!?. So I start filing away with a safe edge file taking care not to knick the ricasso. Now the issue is trying to get a good finish in that area will require sanding. No matter how much care and time I spend sanding, the finish product isn't going to be at the level that I want it to be. Frustrating to say the least.

 

[DukeHarley]

One little slip up makes me loathe knifemaking sometimes. It takes a project you've sunk hours into creating and turns it into something you want to throw away. I was hoping this would be my best knife to date, but I am not happy with a few things already and it's not even done yet. Yesterday I spent quite a while putting a nice compound radius on the leading edge of the bolsters. Profiled, sanded, and finished so that I wouldn't have issues with them and wouldn't have to touch them when glued and peened. Somewhere along the way I decided to touch up the blade portion of the guard that the bolsters will cover and it changed the profile just enough that when I glued and peened the bolsters in place, the blade material was lower than my pretty brass bolsters. Now it looked like $@!?. So I start filing away with a safe edge file taking care not to knick the ricasso. Now the issue is trying to get a good finish in that area will require sanding. No matter how much care and time I spend sanding, the finish product isn't going to be at the level that I want it to be. Frustrating to say the least.

Been there also. Knife 1 and 2 went soooo smoothly and without many head scratching moments but then I started #3 and it fought me from start to finish. Not sure if it was over confidence due to the first two going so well but man #3 was a real pain. Seems everything went wrong with that one. Still turned out great but I fell your frustration.