Feedback on my knife design

O

olaf_yahoo

Joined
Apr 25, 2005
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I'm just looking for opinions on a knife design I am thinking of offering for sale soon. It is a 4 1/2'' long X 1'' X 3/16'' tanto intended for utility purposes and can be used for defense if needed. I plan to make a fighter model with a longer and more agressive edge, sharper point, two finger grooves and a cord wrapped handle in a month or so depending on how well this one does. Made from 154CM, has a flat ground double beveled edge. The photos are not complete though, I have not yet added the four 1/4'' holes in the handle and the polish is not yet done. I am thinking of making it a matte finish instead though. I may be using wrong terminology so in plain english the edge is ground on both sides of the blade.

As with all my knives it will include a custom molded Kydex sheath and buyers choice of either naked steel, carbon fiber, G-10, Linen Micarta and soon to come, cord wrap.

If you were to buy this knife which would you prefer, 154CM, CPM S30V or CPM S90V? For the pictured knife if made from your choice of material what would you be willing to pay/think is a fair price? This one was done entirely by hand, the production models will be precision laser cut and hand polished.

Here are some photos ...

chiseltanto1.jpg


chiseltanto2.jpg


chiseltanto3.jpg


chiseltanto4.jpg


chiseltanto5.jpg


chiseltanto6.jpg


This one was taken before I ground the finger groove.

newknifeshot9.jpg
 
I agree with Ookami, for a utility blade, you should probably have a sharper edge. Try cutting things with it and see what you think.

As for pricing -- two ways to attack this. Look around for similar items, price similarly. Second, count up your costs (including time, materials, etc) and then add some extra factor. Hopefully the second method comes out less than the first method.
 
Looks really nice. To my eye the design looks similar to Fred Perrin's Street Surgeon with some important differences, the Street Surgeon has a more acute bevel (chisel ground?), the edge is cut at more obtuse angle and has holes with paracord woven through it lengthwise.

I agree with the other posters, I think I'd prefer a chisel ground blade. Not sure if it needs to have a more acute bevel. If you intend it to be primarily a back-up weapon, then it should be more acute. Otherwise, for a kind of micro-pry-bar-scraper-blade, then keeping the current bevel is better in my opinion.
 
Id certainly make that angle more acute if it were mine. How thick is that stock? Would a customer even be able to sharpen this without special tools? Most sharpeners use an angle that is more obtuse than your primary bevel, which makes sharpening with a lansy or such impossible on a knife with a very obtuse grind. For a EDC, I am guessing most users would be using it for slicing and cutting more than prying or stabbing, so having a decently thin blade may be a concern.

As far as pricing and such, its up to you. Without scales, filework or pinning, you should be able to whip these out fairly quick....adding any of those will significantly increase your time....

Give us a ballpark of what you were thinking...sometimes its easier to say "youre in the ballpark" than to estimate for someone....
 
As I said this is intended for utility but could be wielded for defense if needed. The grind is 15 degrees both sides which makes sharpening less than a chore as it is 3/16'' thick. I feel this gives the knife some strength while still being slim and useful. If I make it in either CPM S30-90V the price would be between 200-300. The material is expensive and so is the heat treating as I have to send them to a speciality facility. They will be waterjet cut and hand polished.

I made this knife having no knowlede of other mentioned blades, I suppose this is a good example of how people think alike. I am not in the business of stealing designs so anyone thinking that can just drop it.

I may also offer the knife in D2 with a smaller price tag of around $150.
 
Looks like a tactical Kiridashi.

I'd drastically reduce the edge angle. 15 degrees might sound acute, but not if it's zero-ground. Trying to sharpen that on anything but a belt grinder would be futile.
 
Well I put the edges on with a hand file and sharpened it normally like any other knife so I beg to differ.
 
Since I haven't seen one in person I may be a little off here, but I would also prefer a more acute edge. I'd go with the 154CM; nice steel but not (I'm assuming) as expensive as some of the other "super steels." I like the having the option of the different handle materials you plan to offer. The price ranges you list seem a bit high for a piece this size, especially on the S30V option. I have no idea what your actual costs are so this is just my uneducated opinion. Are the handle upgrades included in the cost or are they extra? I would expect the naked and cord-wrapped versions to be cheaper. Good luck with your work and post some more pics when you have them.
 
What types of cutting tests have you performed with it? When you say utility, are you talking day to day chores(box cutting, food prep, opening packages, etc.), or are you talking more specific tasks like rope rigging or something like that? From the pics it almost looks too thick to be an effective cutter, so I would suggest you make it a bit thinner. As it is , I would agree with others and say it looks more like a chisel than a knife. Good luck.:thumbup:
 
I think it's an interesting design. One idea though, how about adding an extra bevel, only at the very tip, to create a pointier tip?

As far as steel preference, personally I would use whatever steel allows you to keep the price reasonable. 440C? 154CM?

I'm not an expert at custom knife values, but I am a very experienced knife shopper. Given that the model as shown is a very simple design, has no handle material, and is rather small, I'd estimate a fair price at $100. It think that's in line with other makers' knives with similar features (the Fred Perrin Street Surgeon is $144). Of course custom and semi-custom knife prices are rather difficult to predict. Prices are often determined by the maker's name, method of manufacture, and supply/demand of a particular model.

Best Wishes,
-Bob
 
I am going to have to agree on price. If you are water cutting these, the labor and materials I am not sure justify a 2-300$ mark. Some makers ask that much for neck knives, but usually are very well established makers for whom their name is half of that value.

I would line out exactly how long it will take you to produce one, all the costs associated, and use that as a starting point.

Considering that 3 of these could be cut from basically a 1 foot bar using a waterjet, and you can HT in batches, and they require very little modification after that waterjet process, I think you should be a little lower.

Please don't take this as any kind of insult whatsoever. I am all for makers getting whatever they can!
 
I think the closeness of the photos is giving a false impression as to size and thickness, I just went back and checked and it say 3/16th, to me the photo makes it look like 1/4 or 3/8. Put something in the photo for a reference. Nice work but not the type of knife I would see myself using so no other comments.
 
If you can get 1095 ones for $35 with a handle and a lanyard, then better steel might be worth and extra $20, maybe.

But honestly, it doesn't look that sophisticated with any special design features to merit a premium price.
 
My opinion, and this may be wildly off since this is just my instinct from the pics that were shown, is that the short blade, and the angle of the sharpened side of the blade (dont confuse with the angle of the edge) in comparison to the handle seems as though it would be awkward to use without any sweep in it. It would have to be used as one does a razor blade, except held as a normal knife and with the blade of a razor angled as such that you would need to hold it nearly perpendicular to whatever you were cutting the entire time, as opposed to simply being able to sweep the edge along the object to be cut while holding the knife outwards from your body (specifically, i am imagining a cardboard box, but I think it applies to any large surface to be cut). As well, cutting rope or other similar material with such a blade might be difficult as well due to both the shortness of the edge, and lack of a sweep or belly. It might slide off the rope due to the angle of the cutting edge, whereas if the blade were curved, more of the blade would be in contact with the rope during its cut.

Sorry to be so critical, I don't mean to be a troll or anything, simply my first thoughts upon viewing the pictures. I think the overall design has meric, just not the way the edge is set up on it.
 
First I don't know why anyone would pay more for a knife just because of the name of the maker. Second the steel is expensive, I have to get it waterjet cut, then sent to another place for the edges to be ground and then a speciality heat treat facility because no one around here has ever even hear of S30V or 154CM. The price based on my costs only and nothing else. I have seen blades a third this size that go for $150. The handle materials will not cost extra on any of the models, neither will the Kydex sheaths, all included in the price.

My cost per knife is almost $130 so I have to charge something to get ahead.

Bob, about adding an additional bevel on the top, I've thought of that and already decided to go ahead and do it so it will have a finer tip. Also it will have four weight reducing holes added, the last one will be suitable for a lanyard.
 
My take on it:

1.) The edge is far too thick...and yes, for "utility." Have you tried cutting anything with it? I have a feeling slicing tomatoes would not be easy.

2.) Given that the edge is so thick and the overall design so overbuilt, the steel doesn't make a lot of difference. Heck, aluminum would practically be durable enough with that edge geometry and since it won't cut well you're not going to benefit from high-end wear resistance. Thus, if you're going to use that design, you won't need to use S90V....maybe something more like 440C or so. That is, of course, unless the "bada$$ factor" of S90V, S30V, etc., is desired.

3.) $200-300 is way too much for a semi hand-made simple design from a relatively new maker. $150 is getting closer, but I'd try to use a cheaper steel and go with around $100 at first (for the basic model).
 
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