Feedback on my knife design

My two cents:
Your manufacturing costs are way too high for this type of knife because you're outsourcing most of the production.
If you do want to get into 'knifemaking', then maybe it would be worth getting a saw, grinder, belt sander, etc. and actually practice on making knives first on cheaper steel.
Also, you could definitely grind out a couple and try your hand using cheaper 1095 steel first and then move on to the complex and exotic steels.

I concur with some of the earlier comments that the edge is more chisel-shaped than having a utilitarian edge.
My prediction is that most buyers of your knife would likely use it as a back-up or neck knife. If not, and it is the primary-carry knife, then it would definitely need to do 'double-duty' as a knife to: clean nails, cut threads off of clothes, open boxes, scrape coatings off of wires, etc. To do that, you would need a finer edge on the knife.

There is no substitute for market research to determine pricing. Whether it is knife & gun shows, other retailers and makers, or even asking custom knifemakers what they recommend, they can all be helpful regarding determining pricing.
Being a member of a professional pricing society, I caution you against using what is called the "cost plus" method of pricing. That is where you take your manufacturing costs and then mark up the pricing from there.
You need instead to look at the appropriate pricing for the market segments you intend to sell to and then figure out how you can manufacture/create your knives to hit those price points while maintaining an adequate margin.

In the meantime, I ask that you PLEASE keep an open mind to constructive criticism and feedback. We're only trying to help...

Best regards,
Mike
 
I agree.

Just because you are outsourcing some of the manufacture, doesnt mean you should necessarily raise the price to reflect that. A buyer shouldnt have to pay a premium because you don't want to profile out the blades. YOU are absorbing that cost since it cuts down on your labor and saves you time. Personally, if I were making these, I would use 1095 or 1084, 3/16", a longer grind, HT them yourself, and charge 100-150. Do them in batches. Without scales, your materials costs will be about 3-15$ per blade including sandpaper, propane, and steel. You most likely would make a much higher profit that way as well. If your pure materials and processing cost is 150$, you will never sell them for 250$ just because you paid 150 for fancy steel and paid someone else to profile, grind, and ht the blades.

I'd look in the makers for sale forum. You may be surprised what knives in the pricerange you are considering offer....

I personally would never pay someone to profile out my blanks, especially on a design that is not complex.

I also would not use a super high performance steel on a knife that will not see the kind of use that would benefit from those steels. Given the grind and the style blade, do you forsee users slicing so much that they would benefit from the edge holding characteristics of those steels?

Id first look at cheapening your manufacture process, rather than raising the price. Find out what you should be asking, then make your manufacture meet that price. The user gains nothing from his perspective from having the labor outsourced. If i was a user, i would be instead expecting a dramatic price decrease with the proportional increased in outsourced steps.
 
Personally, I would think the lower-end 440s would be a viable option on a knife like this. As has been said, with the existing edge angle, extensive slicing is not going to be an issue, so there's no need for so much edge holding ability. 440A would be tougher, more stain resistant, and much easier for somebody to sharpen up, not to mention much easier to grind, heat treat, and being a whole lot less expensive. A thought.
 
TheFlash said:
If you do want to get into 'knifemaking', then maybe it would be worth getting a saw, grinder, belt sander, etc. and actually practice on making knives first on cheaper steel.
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Ok I've been making knives for some time now, this isn't a new venture for me. Producing knives on a mass scale is the only thing that is changing. The reason I want to use 154CM and CPM S30V is because of the quality. I want to offer the best quality knives possible. 440A is shitty steel, it doesn't hold an edge at all and has not hardness what so ever. I understand some of you are trying to help and I thank you for your input but don't tell me to change everything I do. I have been making knives by HAND for years. I do not have the heat treat facilities to do my own tempering or the right milling machines to grind perfect edges. This is why I am now having my designs laser cut at my materials supplier before they are sent to me and having them sent off to a speciality center for tempering after I finish the grind.

The edge may look too thick but it is almost as sharp as a razor, I'll add a few degrees to the grind on each side and that should be plenty for anyone. I don't want to do a chisel grind because the edge is thinner and weaker that way. I have taken a lot of people's advice and will be grinding a false top edge to the knife to increase the tips ability to penetrate...whatever.

If people will pay more for a knife just because of who makes it why would you not pay more for one because of it's superior materials, fabrication and heat treating? I feel that is a far more understandable reason for paying more.
 
You asked us for our opinion, now you're arguing with us. If you're not even willing to consider our advice, why did you bother asking?
:thumbdn:
 
Olaf, why are asking people for their input if you are taking offence to the comments? The reason people will pay premium prices for a designer blade is because that knife maker has earned a reputation for quality, design, performance, etc...With all due respect, you haven't .Having a high quality steel doesn't really matter if the design is lacking. It's great you make knives, but your inability to take suggestions from enthusiasts isn't going to help you sell knives at all, let alone at some fairly high prices. It has been suggested you invest in some equipment and do less outsourcing. I would agree and add that you take some advice to improve the design. If not, you are probably going to waste some money. I have made some wooden kayaks, but I would never think of trying to sell them ,let alone ask someone to pay the premium prices that a proven designer would ask. Like they say, don't ask questions you don't want answered.
 
DaveH said:
You asked us for our opinion, now you're arguing with us. If you're not even willing to consider our advice, why did you bother asking?
:thumbdn:
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No kidding...

You can get Fred perrins street surgeon for $144..
 
Since you asked.

The type of edge you have on that little knife is the type more useful on an axe or chisel. The edge is too thick to allow the thing to penetrate well when cutting. What you basically have is an edge bevel with no primary grind. In order for it to really be of any use as a knife it needs to be thinned down for slicing but as it is now it is just a pretty chisel. It looks like it would really be awkward to hit it with a mallet to use it for that too though. With the current thickness of the edge it would be near impossible to imagine it being used as a wood working tool or wood carver but if thinned down by a primary flat grind even if on just one side it would then probably work for that. I am not talking about the bevel. I'm referring to a primary grind above the bevel. If you were to bring that into the design it would make it cut better for sure than it will right now.

An edge can shave hairs but still be too thick to be of any real use. As it is now it is very limited in penetration due to the fat wedge of the edge and the thickness of the steel. I am not trying to talk down on your efforts. It is a grand try but I just don't see what it is supposed to be used for in it's present incarnation to be honest.
 
Neither 154CM or S30V bespeak "quality" all on their own. These steels have their strengths and weaknesses, just like any other, and can be well or poorly chosen for a particular design or application, just like any other. Also, the steel's hardness is what you want to make it. I've seen 440A run at 59RC and Chris Reeve runs S30V at around 56-57RC on his big knives. True, S30V is capable of getting harder, but again, with going from edge to full-stock thickness in such a short amout of space this is not going to be a slicer no matter how many hairs it sends flying, so the edge retention is a moot point. Use whatever you like, but understand we're not trying to be mean here--you asked for our opinions and we're telling you. If you'd rather not believe us, charge what you're thinking and see how many you sell. It won't be zero--there'll always be a few people who'll like something enough and won't question the price, but don't be surprised if it's not anywhere near the sale volume you're hoping for.
 
I am no expert, and all I can offer is an honest opinion from a fellow blade enthusiast and collector.

Whilst I agree with those individuals whom have stated that the edge is too think, and could be sharper, the bottom line in my opinion is that from the honest word of a consumer,.... I would not even consider purchasing an item as such for $200 - $300, let alone your manufacturing cost of $130, seems to be a little expensive for this particular design, and in all fairness, I really do not have an understanding of how this design functions, and whether or not it would even be effective for utility purposes, let alone a defensive implement.

I mean no dissrespect, nor to insult your designs, skill and business intentions, it's just for the price range which you are contemplating, I honestly think that there are numerous other quality knives on the market which may be more, if not just as effective, yet at a more affordable price.
If $130 is indeed the manufacturing cost per piece, than I would suggest you do look into lowering the cost in some areas, as I can only say from my point of view, and whilst other may indeed not agree with my opinion, I personally just do not find this piece to be worth paying more than $100 at this point in time.

It will of course be beneficial to see the end result once the sheath's, and the handle materials have been added, and also there has been no mention of performance tests, and functional aspects as of yet, which in my opinion, is a necessity, and one which could ultimately decide the outcome of such an item. It appears to me, as others have stated to be more of a chisel, than a knife, and not an item which would be ideal for slicing, and fine cutting chores, and certainly not one which I would trust my life in if placed within a self-defence scenario.

The bottom line, is will it sell ???, and whilst I am hesitant to express my views, since your overall tone in response to others replys, has not appeared to be of an undertanding tone, but rather very defensive, and as such, it seems as though you have posted this thread to ask for people's opinions, and then you have met their honest replys with remarks which illustrate that you have basically already made up your mind, and your price, and if that is the case, I really do not see this piece selling at such a high price which is usually equal to the finest customs, rather than a single, thick slab of expensive steel ....... no offence, it's just exactly how I see it, and you should take my words as a grain of salt, since as I have stated, I am only talking from the honest opinion of a knife consumer...........

Please take this as constructive criticism, and do at least consider the idea of lowering production costs, and sharpening the edge, since it is the reason you posted this thread was it not ??, and so if you were not willing to consider other's ideas, all of which whom may eventually be the potential customers who decide whether this product succeeds or fails, yet only be defensive towards others suggestions, than your overall tone, and the way in which you have presented both yourself and your products, may have an impact in the overall scheme of things, IMHO.
 
Looks like it could be a handy pry-bar or package opener (slitting tape on boxes etc.) Wouldn't need to be of fancy steel or anything... just something that is tough and easy to sharpen.
 
I'd like to start off by saying that I have a great deal of respect for knife makers. Without people forging, grinding, and polishing blades, there wouldn't be anything for us to talk about--let alone carry in our pockets.

I've read all the posts on this thread, and I have some advice for you. I think you should concentrate on projects that allow you to do most of the work yourself. Save the outsourcing for when you can't keep up with demand.
 
$125 for a hand forged Perrin Kiridashi:
From EDC knives:

PerrinKiridashi2-2.jpg
 
That is a really cool design and I would buy one but it will not keep me from making my own versions. For those who have given criticism with the intent of helping I thank you and have taken some of your advice. It is true in cutting tests the grind was not deep enough and I have also added a false top edge to increase the tip's penetrating abilities. I slipped and ground a portion of the tip off so for updated pictures you'll have to wait till I make a new one in a week or so.

I have already gotten orders for the knife as it was before and some people wanted a single bevel for the edge like some of you suggested. I'll be busy with orders for the next while so don't be surprised if I'm not replying to every post. I'll stop by and contribute when I can. Again, for those who had good intentions and gave their advice I thank you. I'll show some of my other designs when they are ready for testing in two weeks.
 
Not to be rude but take a look at the custom knife for sale by makers area.

A 4 1/2" overall NON handled knife with a small grind aint going to sell for $100 to $200 dollars.

You can get a full leather sheath, 4" blade, custom shaped handle in D2 for around $175 and thats a deal!

Personally, I think a knife like that is worth about $50 and thats with a kydex neck sheath, shipping included.
 
I didnt say it wouldnt sell.....I dont think its worth the price you want to ask.

Knifemaking aint about getting top dollar for minimal work.

It takes me 15 hours to complete a job and I would guess a knife that size and grind doesnt take much more than 2.5 hrs to make.

Good luck in your venture..............
 
I am always debating on pricing my knives, (I prefer to err on the low side of things), so I understand where you're coming from. If it were me I would charge $50 to make a similar knife. I am not writing this to be rude, but I make forged bowies at your s30v price and there are other quality makers who do too; you need to lower your prices, regardless of the materials used. Take a look at the "For Sale by Maker" forum, there are many high quality makers who post there which should give you an idea where to go with pricing.

I would highly recommend purchasing a belt grinder, a band saw, and a HT oven. If your cost is $130+ per knife, you can recoup the costs of the above machines within 20 knives sold by doing the work yourself. Also, you should be able to make this knife in under an hour, so the time you save on shipping alone will definitely add to your production levels.

On the construction front, you have some fairly deep scratches in the edge that will not be removed from subsequent polishing. I'd guess the scratches are 60 grit, go back and remove the deep scratches with 120 or 200 grit then progressively higher.

With a 3/16" spine I suggest having the grind at least an inch wide, otherwise the angle will be too obtuse to be an effective cutter.

I really do think, at a much lower price, there would be a market for this type of knife. Good luck with your project, I hope it works out for you.

Matt
 
olaf_yahoo,

It seems like you asked for feedback and people are giving it to you and you are giving back short and somewhat rude answers.

I thought you wanted feedback?
 
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