Felt naked

[markhait]

My wife, I and my two boys went to see sesame street live last night at the Fox Theater. I have a CCW, but could not carry because the laws here in Michigan state that you cannot carry into a entertainment facility that can seat more than 2500. I ALWAYS carry also and so this made it kind of sucky already.
Anyway....so I ditched the gun and packed my Manix. I though it was the best option. We had a great dinner just down the street from the theater and walked into the Fox. To my horror, I saw everyone walking through a metal detector! Ah man...this is gonna suck!
Went through and of course I went off and I tried being slick by explaining it was because of everything else in my pockets. Nope, they saw the Manix and said it had to go. I don't know if any of you are familiar with the city of Detroit, but they have this above ground train called the people mover. The kids get a big kick by ridding on it and so we parked a long ways away so that they would have a nice long train ride. This was the problem, as there was no way I could take the people mover back to my truck to ditch the Manix and be back in time without my wife wanting a divorce!

So as I was walking toward the people mover I was frantically trying to think of something. There was a open park like area I was passing. No one was in it. I started to walk through and thought of a possibility. I pulled out my cell phone to act like I was talking on it, in case there was someone watching me. I sat down on a short stone wall and spied out a landmark. I walked over to the landmark and palmed my Manix, bent down and quickly buried my Manix in some deep snow while I was acting like I was tying my shoe.

Got back to the Fox, saw the show, looked at my watch about every 2 minutes and kept thinking "when's this show going to end!".
Curtains down, time to leave....please be there.....it was there and the rest of the story is happy.

What makes me MAD is that I looked at the Fox Theater policy BEFORE we left and they make no mention of the prohibition of knives to the theater! If they did, I would of just brought a real small swiss army knife or maybe my CIA letter opener.

What would you have done? What should I have done? Would the CIA letter opener pass through a metal detector? Its just some reinforced nylon.
Don't get me wrong...I am a law abiding citizen that follows the law, but when it comes to my family, I might bend the laws a bit to defend them. Detroit is a dangerous city and we were there at night to make matters worse. After I ditched the Manix, I kept an eye out for police. I never saw one cop during our entire time there! What the heck could I have done except for call 911?
If you've ever read anything about Detroit, you'll know that they are not the fastest in responding to emergencies. Not a very comforting fact!

Maybe my best option is just not to go down there anymore?

 

[glistam]

I frequently travel into Washington DC where EVERYTHING has a metal detector. Museums, banks, federal buildings, even the flipping shopping mall (aka Old Post Office).

In situations like these, you can bend rules, or you can work around them

If the concern is defense, I am a big fan of the walking stick. A good stick is better that a pocket knife in most cases. I've never met someone who's been clocked with a blunt weapon and not noticed it (as opposed to knife wounds). I generally prefer hardwood canes since they a have a much more casual look to them. Waxwood, hickory, oak, and ash are suitably resilient; not too heavy either. Crook or not us up to you, but it should be attached solidly enough to take an impact without snapping off.

Now, I am not disabled, nor do I look it, but I don't care. Due to the health privacy laws and the ADA 1990, nobody dares ask me to explain it, because that's technically illegal. The one time somebody did, I simply said I have intermittent difficulty with my equilibrium and balance (basically, my legs may look fine, but it's my head that's the problem). I then politely pointed out that it is improper to ask a person about health information and handled them a small card from the Disability Rights Division. But the vast majority of the time, security folks merely admire the stick rather that be suspicious of it.

There is also of course a AA flashlight like the Mini Maglite which makes a good kubotan, as well as a solidly made metal pen (or the Cold Steel "Sharkie")

When I'm going to a place that I'm concerned will search me, I almost always try to phone ahead and ask them, and I get their name too so that I have someone to reference (or reprimand, if they told me something incorrect)

 

[E-M-P-I-R-E]

Next time tuck it in your waistband right behind your zipper as low as you can and wear your belt buckle a little high to make sure it is completely covered. If they make you empty your pockets....they will find nothing. If they use a wand on you....they will find a zipper. And they wont check you there....because they are not looking for your cock.

 

[powernoodle]

What should I have done?

Aside from moving to a Free State, you did about as well as you could under the circumstances. Michigan has taken a left turn, and has suffered because of it.

One would be tempted to purchase a fixed blade of a composition which did not activate the magnetometer.

Not that I would advocate doing anything illegal.

:thumbup:

 

[mp510]

or maybe my CIA letter opener.

What would you have done? What should I have done? Would the CIA letter opener pass through a metal detector? Its just some reinforced nylon.

I'm not too familiar with Michigan law, but that is likely at least as illegal (if not more illegal) than carrying a pistol in a prohibited place.

 

[TOM1960]

Aside from moving to a Free State, you did about as well as you could under the circumstances. Michigan has taken a left turn, and has suffered because of it.

One would be tempted to purchase a fixed blade of a composition which did not activate the magnetometer.

Not that I would advocate doing anything illegal.

:thumbup:

You wouldn't be doing anything illegal if your non-metallic knife was not specifically prohibited by state law. Entertainment centers, bars, restaurants, etc. can make up their own policies as they see fit. It they want to use metal detectors, they can. If they prohibit any kind of knife, they can. If they want to ban so-called "gangsta style" clothing, ditto. My choice? Cold Steel "Nightshade" series. Very inexpensive, very effective!~

 

[Masteroffajitas]

Swallow it, get through the metal detector, then go to the bathroom..

 

[65535]

Swallow it, get through the metal detector, then go to the bathroom..

It would still pick it up. Anyways it pretty much sucks that way, as long as there is a metal detector there is no way you'll be getting through with a knife unless they allow it. I'll second the whole no warning = a big pile of s**t but honestly you can't do much.

 

[cmdionne]

I live in Detroit, and I do want to let you know that Detroit has a 3" ordinance, so you were breaking the law by carrying the manix anyway. I certainly have stashed knives in a similar manner when I am not allowed to bring them into places, and I also use the IWB behind the belt buckle/zipper trick. One other way to get knives past metal detectors (I use this at the Joe alot) is to wear steel toe boots. I slip the knife into my boot before I go in and if they ask if I have metal I tell them it's my boots. They've never made me take them off, but have patted me down a couple of times.

EDIT: I'm also suprised you didn't see any police presence in that area, It's usually one of a few regions (greektown and midtown/WSU being the others) that there actually is a presence especially on weekend nights.

 

[Josh K]

I feel your pain. Michigan is getting harder and harder to carry what you're allowed to by law, much less a little "bending" when I EDC my Military.

Best thing you could have done in that situation. Most of the time when I know I'm going somewhere that may be a bit risky is just carry smaller. Pack a Lava and a Caly3. No one is going to think that those knives look threatening.

Never heard about that zipper trick though. Hrm. Neat idea, but do those wands show the "strength" of the metal? Are zippers designed to react to metal detectors? My guess is that they wouldn't be. I mean who'd want to have to ditch their pants ever time you went through a metal detector.

 

[cmdionne]

much less a little "bending" when I EDC my Military.

How is this bending? It's a totally legal knife to carry under State law, so unless you're in a municipality with their own codes you're fully within the law.

 

[Josh K]

How is this bending? It's a totally legal knife to carry under State law, so unless you're in a municipality with their own codes you're fully within the law.

Nope. Michigan law limits folding knives blade length at 3".

 

[bear1889]

Interesting......information as I may have to travel to Detroit.

 

[cmdionne]

Nope. Michigan law limits folding knives blade length at 3".

Show me where. Length is mentioned only in the "carry with illegal intent" section and in the "school zone section". In addition there is case law to back up that carrying a pocket knife over three inches was found to be legal.

EDIT: All relevant sections of the MPC can be found in the "Michigan" thread

 

[Josh K]

Show me where. Length is mentioned only in the "carry with illegal intent" section and in the "school zone section". In addition there is case law to back up that carrying a pocket knife over three inches was found to be legal.

EDIT: All relevant sections of the MPC can be found in the "Michigan" thread

Ah. I should read more carefully. Thanks!

 

[cmdionne]

Of course municipalities can have their own codes, so be aware. Detroit's limit is 3", don't know of any others, but I haven't looked into it as I doubt that anything is more restrictive than Detroit.

 

[cmdionne]

Never heard about that zipper trick though. Hrm. Neat idea, but do those wands show the "strength" of the metal? Are zippers designed to react to metal detectors? My guess is that they wouldn't be. I mean who'd want to have to ditch their pants ever time you went through a metal detector.

The wands do show the "strength" of the change in the magnetic field they produce by how loud the buzz it makes. Metal close to the detector changes the baseline magnetic field and thus sets off the buzz.

This is why if you're going to use the zipper trick you need a big belt buckle (western oval metal kind), or so I've been told. The buckle would account for the louder buzz that the wand makes, and as the wand is rather large, it's hard for them to tell that the metal extends down a little further than the buckle. I think it would be relatively easy to tell the difference between just a zipper and a zipper with a knife behind it, but perhaps a knife with plastic handles and no metal liners (thinking an unlined spyderco, like my pacific salt), would not be much different. If they make you take off the buckle you might be in some trouble, but you could always allude to some "body jewelry" I suppose. I doubt they would ask any questions about this. I've also never been wanded on my feet, so perhaps throwing the knife in your shoe/boot would work if there isn't a walk through detector. Like I said I've heard that steel toes will help you if you have to get through a walk-through detector.

I don't know about the magnetic signature of titanium knives, but it might be something to look into.

I'm not sure of any legal ramifications to sneaking a knife past a security checkpoint like this. I wouldn't try to do it at a court building or airport etc, as this is illegal. At a private facility (Joe Louis, Fisher Theater) I would assume you could at the least be asked to leave should it become apparent that you have the knife once you are inside.

n.b. I have never tried anything like this, it was a friend of a friend who figured all of this out

 

[TOM1960]

The wands do show the "strength" of the change in the magnetic field they produce by how loud the buzz it makes. Metal close to the detector changes the baseline magnetic field and thus sets off the buzz.

This is why if you're going to use the zipper trick you need a big belt buckle (western oval metal kind), or so I've been told. The buckle would account for the louder buzz that the wand makes, and as the wand is rather large, it's hard for them to tell that the metal extends down a little further than the buckle. I think it would be relatively easy to tell the difference between just a zipper and a zipper with a knife behind it, but perhaps a knife with plastic handles and no metal liners (thinking an unlined spyderco, like my pacific salt), would not be much different. If they make you take off the buckle you might be in some trouble, but you could always allude to some "body jewelry" I suppose. I doubt they would ask any questions about this. I've also never been wanded on my feet, so perhaps throwing the knife in your shoe/boot would work if there isn't a walk through detector. Like I said I've heard that steel toes will help you if you have to get through a walk-through detector.

I don't know about the magnetic signature of titanium knives, but it might be something to look into.

I'm not sure of any legal ramifications to sneaking a knife past a security checkpoint like this. I wouldn't try to do it at a court building or airport etc, as this is illegal. At a private facility (Joe Louis, Fisher Theater) I would assume you could at the least be asked to leave should it become apparent that you have the knife once you are inside.

n.b. I have never tried anything like this, it was a friend of a friend who figured all of this out

I have carried non-metallic knives through metal detectors at nightclubs and entertainment venues in Boston and Worcester, MA, even on a ferry cruise to Martha's Vineyard (they use metal detectors on the Massachusetts ferrys to the islands of Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket, as well!) My favorite is the Cold Steel "Delta Dart" and other members of their famous "Nightshade" line. I would rather risk being kicked out or denied admission than being in either of these big cities (especially with my girlfriend) unarmed. But, at the end of the day, the choice is an individual one.

 

[zignal_zero]

sorry for being a little off subject, but for all of you using the "nightshade series" how are they? take an edge? tip resist deformation? sturdy? been interested in one, for awhile, but was let down with the Blackie Collins non magnetic folder.

 

[glistam]

sorry for being a little off subject, but for all of you using the "nightshade series" how are they? take an edge? tip resist deformation? sturdy? been interested in one, for awhile, but was let down with the Blackie Collins non magnetic folder.

I have the boot knife and jungle spike. They're basically heavy plastic and you can't really sharpen them. There is only minor resistance to deformation, and I feel they are only good as a last resort, one-good-hit-in-the-right-place shanks. Definitely not useful for any tool purpose I can think of.