Ferro Frustration

M

Matt Cooney

Joined
Aug 23, 2020
Messages
7
Hi,
Newbie here, so go easy: I bought a bushcraft knife from "CFK Cutlery Company" on eBay - massive sales and 100% positive feedback, how bad could it be? The knife is a few years old, so I forget any technical specifics (probably "D2 steel"). I have used it rarely and lightly, and the other day, I was carving a Eucalyptus stick into a small stake and the blade LITERALLY STARTED TO RIP OFF IN SMALL CHUNKS. The only possible explanation I have is that when I last used the knife, I was having trouble starting a fire with a ferro rod, and I did run the rod repeatedly across the blade (not the spine). I know this is a bad idea for purposes of keeping an edge, but could it conceivably cause the metal to fail?! The metal does not show any discoloration I would associate with superheating. I'll see if I can upload a picture.
 
I believe those are made in Pakistan. Pakistan seems to have a reputation for using any steel they can get their hands on. When I was younger I'd buy Pakistan made folders. One day the lock gave up and cut me to the bone. I haven't owned any since.
 
Your first lesson in Ebay knives lol. Um, yeah I don't know what's going on with that one other than bad steel and bad heat treat. Some Pakistani knives aren't hardened. One that I received as a gift was hardened but wasn't annealed, by my estimation. Not to say that there aren't good blade makers in Pakistan; it's just that the ones that make it to the other side of the pond probably didn't come from them.

I still wouldn't recommend using the edge for ferro rod striking, especially if you're one to bear down on it hard. That causes quite a bit of lateral stress which could begin to cause small internal voids, potentially leading to more significant failure later. That's purely an academic conjecture, though.
 
Eversion said:
Your first lesson in Ebay knives lol. Um, yeah I don't know what's going on with that one other than bad steel and bad heat treat. Some Pakistani knives aren't hardened. One that I received as a gift was hardened but wasn't annealed, by my estimation. Not to say that there aren't good blade makers in Pakistan; it's just that the ones that make it to the other side of the pond probably didn't come from them.

I still wouldn't recommend using the edge for ferro rod striking, especially if you're one to bear down on it hard. That causes quite a bit of lateral stress which could begin to cause small internal voids, potentially leading to more significant failure later. That's purely an academic conjecture, though.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I wanted to upload a pic, but does not appear that I can easily just attach a locally saved file. In any event, do you think this is primarily "my fault," or do I have a WTF message to send to CFK?
 
Matt Cooney said:
Thanks. I wanted to upload a pic, but does not appear that I can easily just attach a locally saved file. In any event, do you think this is primarily "my fault," or do I have a WTF message to send to CFK?
Click to expand...
Imgur is a really good way to post a link to images. Pictures would absolutely help assess what happened.

I mean, if you want, send them an email or something. I doubt they'll be helpful, but still curious to see if they would be lol.
 
CFK sorta focuses on junk/novelty knives but they may give you a refund to keep their eBay feeback score high.

Hope you didn't give them good feedback already.
 
Eversion said:
Imgur is a really good way to post a link to images. Pictures would absolutely help assess what happened.

I mean, if you want, send them an email or something. I doubt they'll be helpful, but still curious to see if they would be lol.
Click to expand...
Okay trying the pic here. LMK what u think.
 
Matt Cooney said:
Hi,
Newbie here, so go easy: I bought a bushcraft knife from "CFK Cutlery Company" on eBay - massive sales and 100% positive feedback, how bad could it be? The knife is a few years old, so I forget any technical specifics (probably "D2 steel"). I have used it rarely and lightly, and the other day, I was carving a Eucalyptus stick into a small stake and the blade LITERALLY STARTED TO RIP OFF IN SMALL CHUNKS. The only possible explanation I have is that when I last used the knife, I was having trouble starting a fire with a ferro rod, and I did run the rod repeatedly across the blade (not the spine). I know this is a bad idea for purposes of keeping an edge, but could it conceivably cause the metal to fail?! The metal does not show any discoloration I would associate with superheating. I'll see if I can upload a picture.
Click to expand...


even steel not heat treated at all shouldn't show that behaviour...
it really could be 'pot metal' ... as it's commonly referred to... literally anything that melts?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_metal

upload to - https://postimages.org/
then you can link to it from the .jpg link they give you

1613321287.jpg
 
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Trade in your ferro rod for a BIC, or if you absolutely must go ancient, a genuine flint and steel.
Track of The Wolf has some nice flint and steel kits (some with pre 1860's "historically accurate"/"period correct" to pre-colonial days kindling) in a nice Brass or German Silver or Copper tin.
A real flint and steel works a lot better than a ferro rod, but still not as good as a BIC or other lighter.

(Do you think for a tiny fraction of an instant that folks like Napoleon and his troops, (or any officer or enlisted man in any army prior to 1900, for that matter) Danny Boon, Davie Crocket, Jim Bridget, ( or any other "mountain man" and trappers), Nessmuk, Kephart, and everyone else who spent time in the wilds of North America from before the Vikings landed in Greenland and Nova Scotia (centuries before Chris Columbus landed in the Virgin Isles. Ol' Chris C. never set eye or toe on North, Central, or South America, by the way) wouldn't have switched to a lighter if it had been invented then, in less than a heartbeat?)
(I keep a circa 1950's Ronson (Zippo type) lighter and bottle of lighter fluid in my pack.)

Also, avoid "Made in Pakistan" knives and knife blanks.
Good budget knives (under $20~$30 USD) can be had from Mora, Cold Steel (look for the CS made with 4116 steel and have plastic handles, like the Finn Bear, Pendleton Hunter Lite, and their version of the Canadian Belt Knife), Rough Ryder, and the offshore made Schrade.
(USA made Schrade are not exactly low cost "budget" knives anymore. They are selling for more now, than when new, and they were not exactly "low cost" even back then.)
 
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It was probably hardened, but never tempered, judging from the pictures. I'd drop it on concrete and see if it shatters lol
 
That does not appear to be corrosion damage or anything from the ferro rod to me.
It's definitely some kind of steel failure.
Could be crappy "steel".
Could be poor heat treat
or maybe overheated the edge during the sharpening process at the "factory".

I agree. Despite the gobbledegook on their web page, they are made in Pakistan.

The owner of CFK has considerable history. And it is not good history. CFK is one of his later nom de guerres.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...they-are-blanks.1096724/page-19#post-13354491
 
afishhunter said:
Trade in your ferro rod for a BIC, or if you absolutely must go ancient, a genuine flint and steel.
Track of The Wolf has some nice flint and steel kits (some with pre 1860's "historically accurate"/"period correct" to pre-colonial days kindling) in a nice Brass or German Silver or Copper tin.
A real flint and steel works a lot better than a ferro rod, but still not as good as a BIC or other lighter.

(Do you think for a tiny fraction of an instant that folks like Napoleon and his troops, (or any officer or enlisted man in any army prior to 1900, for that matter) Danny Boon, Davie Crocket, Jim Bridget, ( or any other "mountain man" and trappers), Nessmuk, Kephart, and everyone else who spent time in the wilds of North America from before the Vikings landed in Greenland and Nova Scotia (centuries before Chris Columbus landed in the Virgin Isles. Ol' Chris C. never set eye or toe on North, Central, or South America, by the way) wouldn't have switched to a lighter if it had been invented then, in less than a heartbeat?)
(I keep a circa 1950's Ronson (Zippo type) lighter and bottle of lighter fluid in my pack.)

Also, avoid "Made in Pakistan" knives and knife blanks.
Good budget knives (under $20~$30 USD) can be had from Mora, Cold Steel (look for the CS made with 4116 steel and have plastic handles, like the Finn Bear, Pendleton Hunter Lite, and their version of the Canadian Belt Knife), Rough Ryder, and the offshore made Schrade.
(USA made Schrade are not exactly low cost "budget" knives anymore. They are selling for more now, than when new, and they were not exactly "low cost" even back then.)
Click to expand...

While obviously part of me would LIKE to be able to render fire from natural materials. make a kayak from twigs, a fishing net from bark, and carve a functioning kitchen in the bush with a knife, you can rest assured that the REAL me recently purchased was an 8-pack of BIC lighters on Amazon, some for primary, and some for that little emergency inside pocket in every backpack I own! Thanks for the information. I can afford a quality knife - just didn't think I had to. The search begins.
 
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