Ffg bk16

[whereismyclock]

The BK-16 still going to be a "mini BK 2"-....just with a full flat grind.

BTW, I have never understood the whole "friction" theory about saber ground blades.. When you batton a large enough peice of wood ,it hugs the blade sides pretty tight no matter what the grind.

The blade spine above the blade grind is where the material grabs. On a Saber ground blade there is a flat sided area above the grind for material to grab onto. On a full flat grind ,there is NONE. The clear advantage goes to the full height grind as long as the blade is not too tall.

As a pure cutter ,the edge geometry of a full flat grind is mechanically superior. The only advantage of a saber ground blade is a stronger blade spine and blade edge which matters little on any knife not built for heavy chopping. The Saber grind is a cooler looking blade grind.

There is a reason why Bob loveless insisted on grinding most of his hollow ground blades all the way to the spine. Ethan is simply following the Master's superior logic(and his own positive experiences with his BK11 and 14 blades) by making the BK-16 the best cutter possible.

If you look at it another way, the BK16 is the BK11/14 blades x 2 ..

And that will make it a darn useful knife.

Damn I was expecting this to come from OldPhysics. This is a perfect answer.

As a proud owner of many a flat ground utility blade I will second that it is much superior. Any Beckerhead unsold on flat ground is welcome to use my, Sk5, ESEE 4, MARK 1, or Grohmann.

 

[Bladite]

Has anybody seen the actually specs on the 16 yet?

yup

Or what?

all your warranties are then voided

no stripping or mods, either

 

[ol_sc]

With a FFG 16, I don't see a whole lot of need for the 15. Especially since everyone should already have a BK5, amirite?

 

[ocnLogan]

hmmm...

The BK15 has a longer blade length and a choil, and a slightly different blade shape, as well as a full length swedge of sorts.

They're likely different enough to both sell, but I do see your point. The BK15 was the slicey one before, now its the one with the choil .

 

[FAL'ER]

just don't baton with them

Because they'll explode!

 

[Liveitloud]

I am super stoked about the FFG on the 16. Honestly before its all said and done I will probably pick them all up. Not much of a clip point fan but I may grab it to see what clich is fussing in his pants about. AS far as flat grind and batoning I have split some wood no problem with the 11 so I think all things considered the 16 won't be a wimp.

 

[CaptinRedBeard]

FFG or saber, I'd be kidding myself if I said I wasn't going to buy all three of them. March can't come soon enough.

 

[LG&M]

What do you think of the sheath? I like it. Looks like good construction and the pouch should be large enough to be useful.

 

[Level headed]

i wish the BK-16 remained a saber grind. Although i have not put my hands on one, i wanted that "Mini" BK-2 feel and i'm not so sure the FFG will fulfill that expectation for me. Regardless i will be buying one. Also from the looks of it the sheath looks solid. Im glad it is Mollie compatible as well. Can't wait!

-Jameson

 

[clich]

How difficult is it to see less friction on a saber vs ffg? lets do the math. For example you have a blade with a width of 2 inches, on a ffg you have friction for those two inches. On a saber with the grin ending 3/4 up the blade for example has 25% less friction. So 75% friction< 100% friction right?

Ill still buy it, but it won't be as good of a wedge. Slicer yes, mini bk2 no.

 

[ocnLogan]

How difficult is it to see less friction on a saber vs ffg? lets do the math. For example you have a blade with a width of 2 inches, on a ffg you have friction for those two inches. On a saber with the grin ending 3/4 up the blade for example has 25% less friction. So 75% friction< 100% friction right?

Ill still buy it, but it won't be as good of a wedge. Slicer yes, mini bk2 no.

And almost every photo you see of a BK2-7-9 that has seen lots of batonning use has the coating on the first grind gone, while the coating on the flat "saber" portion remains effectively untouched.

The same thing that makes FFG more of a slicer, makes Saber grinds a better wedge .

 

[clich]

Yeh not to mention in a batoning situation, only the shoulders of the saber are in contact, while on a ffg its the whole blade. So in reality, when batoning only 5% of the blade is in contact.

 

[Nsvens89]

How difficult is it to see less friction on a saber vs ffg? lets do the math. For example you have a blade with a width of 2 inches, on a ffg you have friction for those two inches. On a saber with the grin ending 3/4 up the blade for example has 25% less friction. So 75% friction< 100% friction right?

Ill still buy it, but it won't be as good of a wedge. Slicer yes, mini bk2 no.

Yeah that's what I was thinking also. The only other thing I could think of to add would be like with the BK2 its so wide that when one starts to batton with it the wood starts to split quite quickly so not all of the wood comes into contact with the actual side of the blade. This would mean less friction would happen in this case. The reason this happens is because it is so darn wide. where as a blade of the same thickness and height would slice better the wood would not separate and thus more wood would be in contact with the side of the blade causing more friction.

So yeah ethans decision to make it FFG made it a better cutter but worse at battoning. It should be a heck of a knife but I think a sabre grind is more visually appealing. Like Clich said I still plan on getting one also.

I really like the look and layout of the new sheaths also. Maybe in the future they will upgrade the 9's style sheath to one more similar to that. That would be awesome.

 

[Nsvens89]

You guys were thinking the same thing I was as I was writing it. Still excited!

You guys explained it far better than me I'm going to go sit back in my seat now

 

[Level headed]

For me, a saber ground BK-16 would have probably surpass my expectations as a slicer. my point is, is that I would rather a knife that is "great" at a performing multiple tasks, and not just a knife that is exceptional at one task. I am not trying to shoot down the new knife. And of course, i am excited to get my hands on it...just not as excited as when i first saw the original BK-16.

-Jameson

 

[jim62]

So yeah ethans decision to make it FFG made it a better cutter but worse at battoning.

By that logic a BK9is not as good at battoning as a BK2 either.

And we both know that's not true.

If you measure the blade thickness of a BK -9 (3/16 vs the blade thickness of the new BK16 also 3/16" or very close) and THEN compare the grind height of the BK 9 (1 1/8" tall) vs the total blade height of the new BK 16 (looks to be 1/4") you will see the actual grind angle of the BK9 and the new Bk16 are about the SAME. So based on that, the BK-16 should be a heck of a wood splitter, no?

That explains why Ethan had no trouble at all going to a full height grind on a BK16. It's much ado about nothing.

 

[BRL]

I'll go ahead and admit that much of my knife purchasing is based on looks as much as use. The mini camp we've been seeing for so, so long now is a really awesome looking knife. The fact that the knives we've been shown for the better part of a year, even up to the actual ones used during the "launch" at SHOT, don't look like what's going to be sold, is like the ultimate cocktease. I don't blame anyone or anything, and I feel that KA-BAR and Becker and everyone are doing their best to put the best knife they can on the market, but this was a real shock to me. I'm not the biggest fan of the look of the necker blade even though I have and like one; I *am* a fan of the BK2.

Anyway, that's the last I'm going to say about the grind. A new Becker handle
design is *really* something to look forward to. The sheaths look great. Coyote brown scales is ridiculously awesome. And a slimmish Becker drop-point bushcraft knife made by KA-BAR out of their 1095 cv that will be slicy is a must-buy.

It's just... quit showing us the wrong knife, 'k?

 

[ocnLogan]

The BK9 isn't as good at batoning as the BK2. The only reason that it is "better" is because it is longer, and can baton larger diameter pieces of wood. If it was lets say... an older BK9 (the .25in thick ones), it would be a much closer comparison).

The BK16 is .165in thick vs the .188 of the BK9.

I'll agree it should be close in terms of similar blade profiles towards the bottom. But I really think that the better comparison should be with the Necker (same blade thickness). The Necker can obviously do lots of woods work, and the BK16's extra length should help that.

We also don't have the exact measurements on the tweeners, so you're eyeball measurements might be right, but we really can't tell yet.

ALL i've been saying this whole time was that I was expecting the mini-BK2 that the protos were. I have nothing against the FFG, it just wasn't what I was expecting, and its starting to grow on me a bit more (Can we get new pics here Moose/Ethan/Anyone). I'll likely own it as well, and it might actually turn out to be my favorite.

Then we got into this discussion of the advantages and disadvantages of Saber vs FFG's and here we are...

I've meant no offense to anyone, and hope none was taken .

 

[clich]

What do you mean the bk9 is better at batoning? That sure isn't true. I've had more bk9s stuck than bk2s.

 

[tradewater]

While looking at the prototype 16 at the first gathering, Ethan told me the grind would be higher on the production model. Obviously he had been doing some testing with it and this was one of the design changes he felt was needed. I like the looks of the saber grind too, but hey, the man knows some knives. I think it will be a classic performer and can't wait to get one. I'm starting to freak out a little.