FHFG Elmax RMD someone?

JACKMANDU said:
Busse makes excellent thin blades! Look at the new ws 1020. It’s super thin. Also Busse has been making excellent elmax blades for a long time. My scrapmax 460 is my go to little super slicer. We have so many Ratmandu variants. Why not another.
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Exactly. The RMD doesn’t have to have the crap beaten out of it to have value. I think a thinner, full flat ground version would really shine. Talk about no doubt cutting what needs cut. :thumbsup:
 
Maggot Brain said:
This is actually something I would have an easy time saying I'd pass on it. I used to be firmly in the 'thin is in' side of things, where I pretty much wanted everything thinner.... it certainly has it's place of course. Let's face it though, the thicker the spine... the more abuse it takes period. Busse & company have built their reputation on making knives that take abuse, I think they should just stay in their lane and keep going with what they do best. To boot, I am not fond of the modern 'super steels' as the name itself is utterly meaningless as no steel is actually designed for cutlery uses (that I know of) to be superior.

Wear resistance is certainly nice in the instance of say an elk hunting guide who goes out into the boonies with a sharp knife and expects to not have to sharpen it after 2 weeks. This is actually one of the very first sort of roles these sorts of steels were called for, I believe Phil Wilson had a hand in this idea of such a thing. For somebody who knows how to sharpen knives and does not mind sharpening, the wear resistance ends up being a double edged sword and you lose much more time regrinding in sharpening than you save by reducing the number of sharpening needed.

There are many who will not understand this concept well who have not done significant work around dirty materials or hard materials (both of which cause rapid blunting in real use). In a survival situation certainly nothing will be clean that you find for the most part, that leaves this sort of a knife only being good with clean and soft materials to cut. So, I guess if you intend to just use it solely in the kitchen... then why not... but it will still be much harder to grind in sharpening while having perhaps only moderate increases in edge retention (when cutting to virtually complete blunting).

Now, I know how to sharpen pretty well and while I don't mind it... I don't always feel like it either. I much prefer a simple carbon steel in the kitchen which I use daily to chop pounds of vegetables per day... it may blunt a bit quicker but it sharpens lightning fast once I get annoyed enough with the extra cutting resistance as my knife blunts more heavily. So, in short if you prefer a knife to keep a very low level of sharpness for a very long time (relatively speaking) you may prefer high carbide Elmax... but if you like high sharpness as I do... most steels lose that high level sharpness at a similar rate.

So for me.... Infi, SR-101 or SR-77 are much more ideal with my approach to cutlery. I don't perceive any real value to myself having a knife that is much more difficult to grind, in fact I find much LESS value in it. Especially for survival uses, where one may have to make due with whatever sharpening media they can salvage... say a handful of beach or river sand loaded on a piece of flat split wood and used as a makeshift strop type sharpener. Sand will have a very hard time cutting this steel, whereas it should cut all the others I mention just fine (not being incredibly hard or wear resistant). As always, YMMV and I'm sure some here will disagree.
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Party Pooper!
Just let us have ridiculous things without bringing all that logic and insight from personal experience.
 
Father & Son Traditional Sharpening Father & Son Traditional Sharpening Valid points... and I'll agree that a thinner, harder RMD wouldn't be my choice for a do it all survival tool. Many of us, though, already have the old style, thick edged RMD, and like the platform enough to want to expand it to suit other uses. Not to replace the original; but to supplement "the line". (Sort of like having work and race axe.)
One of the first things I thought of when I saw this thread is the Busse warranty, and how the knife described would be problematic. I'm not saying that the average Busse user isn't smart enough to recognize the difference between a tool designed to cut vs one designed to be beaten; but, for some, old habits die hard... and there will likely always be those that try to damage them.
FWIW, while I appreciate (and would buy) the described RMD; I would much more appreciate those features in a SOS, as the smaller blade makes it more suitable for routine carry in my world.
 
Let me clarify, first by saying I am not against thin blades at this point. As I said, they have their place... I just question how much sense it makes to take a proven ‘combat knife’ design and just make it thin. It would not be my first choice for something along those lines, but ideally something designed for light cutting from the start.

My case regarding the Elmax, basically, was it makes little sense if you can sharpen well and you are not concerned about oxidation (Elmax will still rust though). SR-101 would be my first choice for such a knife, but as I said I’d prefer something other than the RMD... Son of Swat or Hairy Carry would be better suited to me.

The other thing about Busse & Kin ‘thin’ slicers, I don’t actually find them all that thin or exceptionally good cutting. My perception of thin is in a different category entirely, as in it will be damaged easily with careless use even for light cutting tasks. I don’t consider .030” thick (at the tip of W.S. 1020) behind the 20-25 DPS edge bevel to be thin at all.

That geometry is literally heavy enough to support chopping if you are careful to choose clear woods free of knots or debris. I would prefer that figure to be at least cut in half at 10-12 DPS w/ .015” thickness (or less) behind the edge to even approach calling it a thin grind. To get there requires significant regrind, from the factory geometry.
 
Maggot Brain said:
This is actually something I would have an easy time saying I'd pass on it. I used to be firmly in the 'thin is in' side of things, where I pretty much wanted everything thinner.... it certainly has it's place of course. Let's face it though, the thicker the spine... the more abuse it takes period. Busse & company have built their reputation on making knives that take abuse, I think they should just stay in their lane and keep going with what they do best. To boot, I am not fond of the modern 'super steels' as the name itself is utterly meaningless as no steel is actually designed for cutlery uses (that I know of) to be superior.

Wear resistance is certainly nice in the instance of say an elk hunting guide who goes out into the boonies with a sharp knife and expects to not have to sharpen it after 2 weeks. This is actually one of the very first sort of roles these sorts of steels were called for, I believe Phil Wilson had a hand in this idea of such a thing. For somebody who knows how to sharpen knives and does not mind sharpening, the wear resistance ends up being a double edged sword and you lose much more time regrinding in sharpening than you save by reducing the number of sharpening needed.

There are many who will not understand this concept well who have not done significant work around dirty materials or hard materials (both of which cause rapid blunting in real use). In a survival situation certainly nothing will be clean that you find for the most part, that leaves this sort of a knife only being good with clean and soft materials to cut. So, I guess if you intend to just use it solely in the kitchen... then why not... but it will still be much harder to grind in sharpening while having perhaps only moderate increases in edge retention (when cutting to virtually complete blunting).

Now, I know how to sharpen pretty well and while I don't mind it... I don't always feel like it either. I much prefer a simple carbon steel in the kitchen which I use daily to chop pounds of vegetables per day... it may blunt a bit quicker but it sharpens lightning fast once I get annoyed enough with the extra cutting resistance as my knife blunts more heavily. So, in short if you prefer a knife to keep a very low level of sharpness for a very long time (relatively speaking) you may prefer high carbide Elmax... but if you like high sharpness as I do... most steels lose that high level sharpness at a similar rate.

So for me.... Infi, SR-101 or SR-77 are much more ideal with my approach to cutlery. I don't perceive any real value to myself having a knife that is much more difficult to grind, in fact I find much LESS value in it. Especially for survival uses, where one may have to make due with whatever sharpening media they can salvage... say a handful of beach or river sand loaded on a piece of flat split wood and used as a makeshift strop type sharpener. Sand will have a very hard time cutting this steel, whereas it should cut all the others I mention just fine (not being incredibly hard or wear resistant). As always, YMMV and I'm sure some here will disagree.
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Maggot Brain said:
Let me clarify, first by saying I am not against thin blades at this point. As I said, they have their place... I just question how much sense it makes to take a proven ‘combat knife’ design and just make it thin. It would not be my first choice for something along those lines, but ideally something designed for light cutting from the start.

My case regarding the Elmax, basically, was it makes little sense if you can sharpen well and you are not concerned about oxidation (Elmax will still rust though). SR-101 would be my first choice for such a knife, but as I said I’d prefer something other than the RMD... Son of Swat or Hairy Carry would be better suited to me.

The other thing about Busse & Kin ‘thin’ slicers, I don’t actually find them all that thin or exceptionally good cutting. My perception of thin is in a different category entirely, as in it will be damaged easily with careless use even for light cutting tasks. I don’t consider .030” thick (at the tip of W.S. 1020) behind the 20-25 DPS edge bevel to be thin at all.

That geometry is literally heavy enough to support chopping if you are careful to choose clear woods free of knots or debris. I would prefer that figure to be at least cut in half at 10-12 DPS w/ .015” thickness (or less) behind the edge to even approach calling it a thin grind. To get there requires significant regrind, from the factory geometry.
Click to expand...

Lots to digest in these two posts, but I find much wisdom in the first, IMO. Not that I 100% agree with it, but much wisdom. Oddly enough, in my use, I have not found ELMAX difficult to sharpen. Nor M390, or 20CV. Admittedly, I don't try to sharpen them with a river rock or sand-laden wooden board. But, I have had no problem resetting an edge bevel with what I believe is called a carborundum stone, and finishing, as necessary, with ceramic if I want a shaving edge. I can do that quicker on 1095.... but then, I have to do it more often.

The second post, though, is exactly what I would have said, if Maggon Brain hadn't already said it first, and better. I have not one bit of problem with my MEGA RMD with the MASSIVE thickness, because it has a nice hollow grind. I HAVE been working, though, to thin the massive thickness right behind the edge bevel. If manufacturers (all, not just Busse) would make their knives thinner just and only behind the edge bevel, I would be MUCH happier. As it is, all my RMDs, INFI RMDs, SWATmandus, and MEGAmandu (as well as 90% of the blades from ANY manufacturer) have to be thinned just behind the edge bevel on their first sharpening. And I've yet to blow out an edge that has been thusly thinned. But they cut cleaner, longer, smoother, after thinning. And I don't have to sharpen any more often.
 
A 6" long, <=1/8" thick, FHFG or Full Height Convex Ground, ELMAX (Busse HT) seax variant of the RMD? Like a SeaxManDu? Or El-SeaxManDu, ElSeaxDu, or SeaxMaxDu?
That'd be Seaxy!
 
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