Fiddleback 01 and CPM154 side by side?

newyork said:
That makes me worried. Hope I'm not screwing my edges up
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Regardless of steel...

Four tools I've found invaluable-

Strong light

A loupe (or even magnifying lense)

A sharpie

The Maintenance forum

A sharpie is used to color the bevel before sharpening. The vast majority of "I'm sharpening but my edge stays dull" threads are because the person isn't hitting the apex.

A wire/burr is the next biggest culprit, then effort/patience. Sometimes it takes herculian effort to get the job done.

The combo of light, sharpie and loupe are a powerful trio for doing an excellent job.

The maintenance forum is the best resource on the Internet imo for all things sharpening. Be careful though. Sharpening can become an obsession all its own. You've been warned! :D
 
I just noticed one of my 01 Fiddlebacks has some micro-pitting.:eek: It's on both sides of the blade. Very hard to notice in regular lighting but when held at the right angle in bright light it's noticeable.

How bad is this for the blade?
Should it be sent in for spa treatment before it gets worse?
 
I just noticed I'm rounding out and then polishing the bevel of some of my knives, using the strop method. It doesn't always happen. Not good. I just went back and used a Lansky to correct it using the 25 degree slot. Any input on this being a bad thing using that spot on the Lansky? Seems like its correcting my strop mess ups.
 
Joe Duder said:
I just noticed one of my 01 Fiddlebacks has some micro-pitting.:eek: It's on both sides of the blade. Very hard to notice in regular lighting but when held at the right angle in bright light it's noticeable.

How bad is this for the blade?
Should it be sent in for spa treatment before it gets worse?
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Personally I shrug off a little pitting. It probably opens the door to moisture retention, but I keep my blades dry anyway. Just wipe it off after use. Put a coat of oil on your blades that won't see use for a while. I like usp mineral oil because I have it handy (sharpening stones), but there are a lot of specialized treatments on the market for this purpose. I believe Frog Lube is foodsafe, which is an important consideration for me. There are a couple of excellent rust resistance product tests in the Maintenance forum that show many products and how they stand up to forced corrosion.

newyork said:
I just noticed I'm rounding out and then polishing the bevel of some of my knives, using the strop method. It doesn't always happen. Not good. I just went back and used a Lansky to correct it using the 25 degree slot. Any input on this being a bad thing using that spot on the Lansky? Seems like its correcting my strop mess ups.
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Most likely you are rounding over the apex.

My set-up is very thin leather on hard wood. The easiest way for me to recommend a technique is as follows.

Lay your blade flat against your strop.

Slightly lift the spine off of the surface of your leather (or balsa, or cork, or whatever).

Edge lead (that is backward from edge trailing which is your normal stroke on a strop) while lifting the spine *just* until you begin to feel the apex bite into the leather.

Lower the spine a degree or two.

Hold that angle and strop (edge trailing) as normal.

After some practice this becomes second nature.

If any of this is not making sense let me know and I'll try to re-phrase it.

Newyork, what are you using for a strop?

Edit-

Sorry to the op for getting off topic. This all probably belongs in the How do you sharpen your Fiddleback thread. :o
 
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The KSF kit. That's my method but I think I've become over confident and go to fast without checking for that bite.
 
Strigamort, thank you for the fine description. Now to show my "noob-ness" ... please define "apex" ... I know what it means mathematically, just makin sure it means the same thing when I'm stropping ...

~Edge
 
Ed, the apex is how I refer to the very edge where you bevels from either side of the blade meet.

Usually you have the Primary bevel (the flat/hollow/convex), then closer to the edge, the Secondary (the bevels that you touch to your stone), which form the apex. That is, unless you (or Andy) uses a Microbevel, which is usually an apex that is at a slightly more obtuse geometry than the Secondary. These are very small and are typically used when you want an acute primary, but need a tad more durability/stability of the steel behind the apex.

I've read something that said that the microbevel on FF's knives are applied so that the user has the option to easily continue sharpening a "V" or full convex secondary. That could be true, but it would be the first time I've ever seen someone do it for that reason.
 
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Fiddleback said:
This is a lot of how I think also. Here is the skinney. 01 was designed for edged tools. It is tough, it sharpens easily, and it will hold an edge very well. If you wash an 01 knife in the sink, then sit it beside the sink while you put away the dishes forgetting to wipe it dry, it'll rust before you're done. It is one of the fastest rusting steels. That said, I am a wipe the knife on my pants before sheathing guy, and I've never had pitting on any of my 01 knives. My Recluse lives by the woodpile in my garage in its sheath. It has a patina, but no 'rust'. It was the very first Recluse. I use it to make the kindling for our fires.

The stat sheets make it seem like crucible steels blow everything else away. And its true. They are tougher, and WAY more wear resistant. But they are a DEFINITE PITA to sharpen.

I consider my sharpening skills an 8 out of ten with Ban Tang being a ten. Some of you are at Ban's level some of you are not even at my level. Lets just say I get a lot of knives back to re-sharpen. Many have not even attempted it, others have mangled it. Here is the point. If you can't get 01 sharp, then the problem is you, not the steel, not the grind, not the heat treat. Its also easiest to sharpen in the field, in the kitchen, and even on a boat with a goat.

Think of this. 01 is a VERY popular blade steel for high end chef's knives. How could this be? Wouldn't kitchen use destroy it first day? The reason can be found at the cutting edge. Imagine the routine the chef goes through to maintain that knife without it rusting. It has to be cleaned and dryed each time it is used. They'd keep fingerprints off of it, and prevent anyone but themselves using it. This would have to be made clear to everyone else in the kitchen. A newb that picked that knife up would get tought to never make that mistake again.

Now why don't those chefs use CPM M4 like the cutting competitions? Or the every loved 3V? Why not 3V? Its because of the sharpening process. Plain and simple.
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Very well said! Do you mind if I share this quote from you on some other forums and my facebook page?
 
This is a very informative thread. It actually stopped me from purchasing a cpm154 fiddleback. I personally don't want to struggle with sharpening a knife.

My question is, how hard is cpm154 to sharpen??
 
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troutfisher13111 said:
This is a very informative thread. It actually stopped me from purchasing a cpm154 fiddleback. I personally don't want to struggle with sharpening a knife.

My question is, how hard is cpm154 to sharpen??
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Great question! I've sharpened a lot of 154-CM, but not CPM-154. 154-CM is fairly easy to sharpen and it really holds a mirror shine. I'd imagine -the "Crucible Powder Metallurgy" aspect of it would make sharpening a little easier (than 154-cm).
 
Fiddleback said:
My Recluse lives by the woodpile in my garage in its sheath. It has a patina, but no 'rust'. It was the very first Recluse.

I consider my sharpening skills an 8 out of ten with Ban Tang being a ten
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Pictures of the Recluse or it doesn't exist.

Your sharpening statement made me chuckle. I own several fiddlebacks and they are all close to Rockstead sharpness upon arrival. I looked at my BF the wrong way the other day and it cut me. Your standards for sharpening put shame to us mere mortals.
 
I think he posted some pics of it earlier..

Andy usually is pretty conservative with his edges so although very sharp they are pretty robust. If you thin them out a bit they become dangerously sharp and still plenty strong (for me at least)
 
I've never sharpened cpm154 either, but I too find 154cm to be pretty easy as stainless goes.

Imo how easy or hard a steel is to sharpen is so personal that it becomes impossible to quantify from person to person. The only way I can think of to relate is if both parties find more than one steel to compare and get similar results. Sharpening equipment makes a recommendation null as well.

I hate s30v, for instance. The high vanadium makes it a pita to work with and the trade-off for edge retention is not worth it to me. M4 is amazing though. Easy (for me) to sharpen and retention is excellent. Every high carbon steel has been a joy to work with as well.

Anyway, in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't mind trying some cpm154, but I know without a doubt that o1 is going to be better for me. ;)
 
Strigamort said:
I've never sharpened cpm154 either, but I too find 154cm to be pretty easy as stainless goes.

Imo how easy or hard a steel is to sharpen is so personal that it becomes impossible to quantify from person to person. The only way I can think of to relate is if both parties find more than one steel to compare and get similar results. Sharpening equipment makes a recommendation null as well.

I hate s30v, for instance. The high vanadium makes it a pita to work with and the trade-off for edge retention is not worth it to me. M4 is amazing though. Easy (for me) to sharpen and retention is excellent. Every high carbon steel has been a joy to work with as well.

Anyway, in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't mind trying some cpm154, but I know without a doubt that o1 is going to be better for me. ;)
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I always thought s30v wax rather easy to touch up. But I never let it get too dull. So perhaps when it gets dull it's tough to get back to shaving sharp.
 
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