Fiddleback Friday Troubles

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Fiddleback

Fiddleback

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I am considering stopping the Fiddleback Friday sales. I personally love doing them, but we are getting tons of complaints that the process isn't fair. Folks are walking away from Fiddleback Forge knives, angry and disgusted. I'm hearing that valued customers cannot recommend Fiddleback knives. I'm hearing of folks being contacted to organize boycotts. I want to address this. We sell around 10 knives a month TOTAL back of house out of the 250 or so knives we make each month. 10/250!!! It isn't possible to make the process 'fair' and honestly, it sounds like a middle school idea. There is no fair, Fiddleback Fridays are about capitolism, and they are supposed to be fun. This issue may spell the downfall of not only Fiddleback Fridays. I'm beginning to think it is not possible to build a sucessful knife company between taxes and govt, and tiptoeing around these hurt feeling issues.

One of my favorite parts about being a knifemaker is that we do honest work. We don't screw anyone, or shaft anyone, or make any money with hard sales techniques. We back our product with a very good warranty. We go out of our way to give back to the community. In short, we have always been proud of how we do business. We don't lay awake sleepless because of guilt over how we work our craft. Even though this is the case, in the walk away e-mails, its because of unfair and dishonest business practices. I think we run a clean business, and I don't know of a dishonest business practice that is part of this business. It really pisses me off too.

There were 4 of these e-mails this month, one that everone here is aware of, and three more. All of these came from valued friends. For now, we will continue to work hard and hope these issues blow over, but this is serious, and incorrect. Addressing it would mean major changes and may mean cutting the damn Friday sale out.
 
Some true things about business. You will never ever make everyone happy, it's a fools errand. The more expensive your product becomes the class of people, job wise, gets to be the kind of people who have pretty deep pocket books. One thing I have found true in life is the higher up you go the bigger people's egos become. We have some of those people here...
Your business model is pretty clear from where I sit. The people with a sense of entitlement unless catered to might go away for a while. They will be back...there is no better knife maker out there period, for my tastes anyway.
 
That would be a shame. The thrill of Fiddleback Friday has really helped this brand grow. Consider making modifications if YOU think they would easy to implement and helpful. But don't do away with it.

No one has contacted me about a boycott. I would tell them to go pound sand if they did.
 
Just to add on if I came to the shop, one day I will, it's a trip from Oregon, and I was unable to buy a knife on my visit because it might hurt someone's feelings I would question you as a person and a businessman. Selling out the backdoor has to happen at times to take care of that customer.
 
You run a quality business and treat your customers very well Andy. I will remain a customer until the day you shut your doors. I like FB Fridays personally and think they are a reason the great community exists here. I see knifemakers do 1st come first serve sales on Instagram almost everyday. We do that ourselves on the flea market. I don't see an issue with it at all. Despite the fact that I see knives I wish I could have, go to the faster person, Or even someone very happy to have picked up a knife directly through you. It's business. There are more people that want to own a FB knife than there are knives.

Supply and demand.

Entitlement attitudes seem to hold sway on the internet though. Especially with desirable, limited run products. I've seen it all over the vaping community too. These people will NEVER be happy unless they are the ones getting what they want. It's hypocritical thinking at best and just nasty envy at it's worst. Fair, to be honest, has nothing to do with it at all.

Those of us that love your product will continue our patronage regardless of how things change in how you sell your product. If it means I have to troll your dealers websites hourly then so be it. If it means I have to bring a couple grand to Blade 20forever to shake your hand and get a few knives, I will. Thank you for being in the business and for being who you are.

Sincerely,
Anthony
 
Please don't do that. Friday is fun, anticipation for friday is fun, talking about friday is fun. I'm pretty new to FF and only have 6 knives in my collection so my voice may not have the weight of guys who have been around for years, but for whatever my opinion is worth i think the process you have is a great one. Honestly, its probably the most "fair" that a process can be (although, as i tell my daughter the world isn't a fair place and everyone has a different perception of what fair is anyway) since it gives everyone more potential access to the knives. If the knives all went to dealers i am sure they would have some walk in traffic as well, probably more. I'm sure we all hate missing knives, but it also adds to the fun when you have to keep watching (at least for me).
 
Sad to hear this Andy. I know you are very frustrated and apparently some of your knife friends are too. One thing that might get things back on track on Fridays is to require every "shark" to copy and paste the exact description (as posted by you guys) of the knife they want. This will help prevent some of those shark snipers who have figured out how to program a way to be first to respond on FF Friday. Also, the Fotki preview is nice, but people are creating very basic knife descriptions from those pics and then immediately pasting their somewhat incomplete description. These two suggestions would, in my mind anyway, get things back to the way they were before. Each shark should only be allowed 1 or 2 knives max on FF Friday. If someone wants more, then they can go to one of your fine dealers. For the whiners, there's always the aftermarket. There seems to be some nice knives in the sales thread.

You've always been a stand up guy in my book and you have been an inspiration to me in my attempts to make knives and get a little something going in my neck of the woods. You have a great thing going and I really get disgusted to hear that there is a small but treacherous, traitorous back-stabbing movement to call for a boycott. A boycott? Really? SHAMEFUL!!!
 
I hated to see this thread, but I honestly was not that surprised when I did. In fact, I've kind of been expecting it ever since I started reading comments about how people were skirting the process during the Friday shark tank. I'm not going to mention names or point finger, but I will say, some of what I've read of people doing to get "their knife" has really kind of pissed me off too, especially when they try to justify it with selfish whining about "fairness".

Andy's Fiddleback Friday sales are as "fair" as he can make them from his perspective, and that's exactly how they should be. He posts a batch and gives nobody a head start. Bid, Pay and relish the joy when you shark one. If you miss a knife, you take the hit in the guts, dust yourself off and try again.

You want to cry about fairness? I can't even view the knife photos from work because our firewall blocks all photo hosting sites. Most of the sales threads are posted when I'm working or driving home from work. When I read somebody post those same excuses as reasons they felt slighted in some way, and thus the reason they felt the need to trick the system, THAT pisses me off. I can't even count how many wonderful knives I've wanted, and missed, because I was sitting in traffic at 4:00pm in the afternoon on my way home.

People calling knives with no intention of buying them. Using sniper programs to get knives. For God's sake, people won't even follow the simple rules about editing a bid post. If those comments hit a nerve with you, then they're aimed at you. If they hurt your feelings, tough sh*t. Quit snaking the rules.

It's called the Shark Tank for a reason people, and we all claim to be adults....Perhaps we could at least try acting it. I personally am supremely disappointed that the selfishness of a few has had such a negative impact on somebody as genuinely good hearted as Andy is.
 
necrolicious said:
Entitlement attitudes seem to hold sway on the internet though. Especially with desirable, limited run products. I've seen it all over the vaping community too. These people will NEVER be happy unless they are the ones getting what they want. It's hypocritical thinking at best and just nasty envy at it's worst. Fair, to be honest, has nothing to do with it at all.
Click to expand...

This. Times one thousand.

Don't let the bastards grind you down, Andy.

Behaviorally speaking, I hope this is going to be like putting a misbehaving dog in a crate: it barks and barks for while, louder than ever, then it stops when it realizes nobody cares about its tantrum.

Or it doesn't. In which case you tell everyone it has rabies, take it out into the back yard, and Old Yeller it.
 
A newbies perspective:

I discovered your incredible knives a couple months ago through one of your dealers. I bought a bushboot and a hiking buddy and was blown away. All my other previously loved knives suddenly seemed very ordinary. At first I thought the Fiddleback Friday process was ridiculous - why can’t I just buy the knife I want? But I thought what the heck I will give it a try, and over the past few weeks I have bought a small handful of knives on Fiddleback Fridays (and a couple on a WAS Wednesday). Sure I was mildly disappointed to not score a couple I had my eye on, but on the other hand, I managed to score two that I thought I had no chance at. And guess what? I can give it another shot next Friday. As it’s been said already, no business model is perfect, and there will always be disappointed people (justified or otherwise). In my own business I always try to avoid getting distracted by this type of ‘noise’ and focus on creating the best products/services and a providing a great customer experience. Everything I have seen up to this point suggests this is what you and your team of artists and craftsmen do. I sincerely hope it continues. Cheers!
 
hiredgun said:
One thing that might get things back on track on Fridays is to require every "shark" to copy and paste the exact description (as posted by you guys) of the knife they want.
Click to expand...

I cannot require this because it would rule out the less computer savvy. I happen to have a bunch of older friends that buy on Fridays across the country and aren't shortcut savvy enough to accomplish this. I can't rule out their participation. We already have limited each person to three knives.
 
D.H. said:
Behaviorally speaking, I hope this is going to be like putting a misbehaving dog in a crate: it barks and barks for while, louder than ever, then it stops when it realizes nobody cares about its tantrum.

Or it doesn't. In which case you tell everyone it has rabies, take it out into the back yard, and Old Yeller it.
Click to expand...

Well said and apt. Also, if you don't mind i am going to borrow that quote to occasionally use in everyday life.
 
Personally I think the FF have become somewhat "manic". And I do believe that it takes the focus of the actual knives from "usable art"'and into frenzied collecting.
But.......my personal conception gives me no right to dictate your business model. Run it as you see fit Andy.
Im not gonna walk away.

Heck, If youd be giving away free knives Im sure someone would complaint that theyre not getting paid to have them.
 
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Well I for one am for the boycott. Imagine all the fiddlebacks we can shark once all those entitled are out.of the way. I can't even imagine this was a thought.
 
Sorry to hear about more complaints of "fairness". I've been tempted to call the shop to get particular knives I've seen on Bud's previews but have refrained as I would rather Andy be making knives than dealing with people on the phone. As beautiful as they are, they are still knives and some people seem a little too obsessed with them. Like a cult following, its good for business but maybe not so great if you're trying to please everyone. I enjoy both the Fiddleback Friday thread as well as the Flea Market and ALL of the dealings I've had on the flea market with fellow Fiddleback lovers have been perfect. To me its a great community. In terms of the computer sharking or sniping, I was a little worried about that when I first heard it. I have no clue how you would write a program to do that nor do I really care. If people are using that method to shark knives I don't believe its really any faster than following the tips on one of the "stickies" regarding Friday sales. If the complaints have been about knives customers saw on Bud's preview over the past few weeks, I think he's made it very clear that the knives pictured may or may not end up on the sales thread, in the hands of dealers or in a box to be brought out to Blade show. At the end of the day you still need to pay the bills to turn the lights on, so if a customer is in your shop and wants a knife, of course you should sell it to them. It would be foolish not to do so. I think in general, the more fans of your knives you create, the more happy(and upset) people you will make but percentage wise its probably still the same(maybe 1 or 2%?) and unavoidable. You do your best to take care of customers by everything I can see and we sincerely thank you for it!
 
+1! Haha

In reference to this comment "Well I for one am for the boycott. Imagine all the fiddlebacks we can shark once all those entitled are out.of the way. I can't even imagine this was a thought."
 
I'm not quite sure what to say Andy. As far as I'm aware, the process of selling - on FF, through dealers, and out the back door - hasn't changed in the time that I've been here. Things like the Fotki pics have always been there as well. So I'm not sure what long time customers would be upset about recently. Sure there have been hiccups along the way (conditional buys "if X is this then I'll take it otherwise I'll take Y", casting a wide net, buying large numbers in one post, etc) but each one of those have been addressed as needed. There are some current practices that don't seem to hold true to the community and spirit of Fiddleback, and I'm guessing those will be addressed as well. But there's always going to be ways of gaming the Friday sales. That's a fact of life. But I don't know that it invalidates the system.

Regarding back of house sales, as I said above, that's nothing new. I'm not sure why folks would be ticked about it now.

There are certain knives that I've been trying to buy for years. I have a spreadsheet with my desires and some have been sitting at the top of that list for a LONG time. Some of them have even shown up on Friday and I haven't been able to purchase them. One I missed out on by seconds, just to have the buyer contact me months later to offer to sell it to me. This is how the process works.

I haven't been contacted about a boycott or to discuss what's going on, but I'm guessing that's cuz I'm not a huge purchaser. I'm just someone that enjoys the community.

I'm not sure how you "fix" the issue, as any major change will have worse consequences. Sell them all through dealers? That's not any different than Fridays. First come, first served and the folks monitoring the dealer sites get the knives. Closing up shop, well that would just plain piss me off.

You need to do what's best for your business. You seem to have had a good handle on how to address the issues and grow the company to the point it's at now and I trust you'll have the answer to this as well.
 
this probably wont be popular, but calling it as I see it as a relatively new FF customer and a long time BF member:


this is really quite simple, stop the unorganized feeding frenzy. You call it feeding the sharks, and that's exactly what it is.
There's no fairness in the feeding of sharks, hence natural selection. Why in the world would anyone expect this to be ANY different?
By DESIGN this system WILL CULL out those who are unable or unwilling to participate.
Period.

Pretty sure that's not what you want as a business.

Furthermore:
When a Friday thread is posted without weekly regularity (will it be 1130am or 3pm?), without punctuality to scheduled times in the "It's Friday" thread (will it be 45min late because lunch ran long?), and by giving distinct advantages to those with more experience (threads on how to shark successfully are evidence), of course you're going to have these perceptions. The writing's been on the wall a while, and it sounds like most people are not surprised.

I go back to my suggestion from a few weeks back:
Post up all of the knives like you do now, but keep the thread LOCKED or note that sharking claims will not be accepted\honored until your post is time stamped with 7pm (e.g.). Post the thread up AT LEAST 1-2 hours before this time. Give people a chance to breathe, look at the pictures, the descriptions, and then allow the same process as normal.

Sure, it will still be a rush at the hypotethical 7pm, but you'll bring a lot more fairness and equity and regularity to the process.

Alternatively, skip all this forum buying, and host a storefront on your webpage, like other custom knife companies. (i will give examples of Carter Cutlery and Adventure Sworn (who up until recently also did forum buying, similar to how I suggested))

I'd wager if you do this you'd end up with fewer of your brand new knives popping up in the flea market. People will go after the 1 or 2 knives they will need\want rather than take a gable that the bushfinger is actually a SFT 3/16 O1 when they really wanted a TT 1/8 A2.
You might even find that you can hold some stock for longer than 4 hours.


Last but not least, I will note two things;
-Andy noted this is about capitalism and he obviously wants his business to thrive and grow (as we all do)
-Others have noted discontinuing "Fridays" would be a shame because that's how the brand has grown

I'll put it very simply; this business model is no longer sustainable if you want FF to grow. Sure the word has spread, but I think you've reached the max capacity of doing sales on a thread.
 
If you are contacting Mr. Roy about this stuff, you really need to take a look in the mirror. You are taking advantage of a man who tries to run a fair and honest business. He is far more open and develops closer relationships with his clients than any one I've seen. But some people seem to not understand where the boundaries of that relationship are. If you are his friend, that does not entitle you to tell him how to run his business. That doesn't entitle you to make him feel guilty and question his business practices. He makes the knives and he can distribute them how he pleases. Do you really think you're a friend by stirring all this up? You're just abusing your relationship to get your way....
 
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