Fiddleback Friday Troubles

[hiredgun]

I cannot require this because it would rule out the less computer savvy. I happen to have a bunch of older friends that buy on Fridays across the country and aren't shortcut savvy enough to accomplish this. I can't rule out their participation. We already have limited each person to three knives.

Thanks for responding and I appreciate your answer. I'll take one more stab though. It is easier to teach an old timer how to copy and paste the exact description than to overcome all the crafty and sneaky ways some of your customers are using jump ahead of everyone else who might have otherwise had a more equal chance at getting one of your knives. By catering to the old timers, you are actually making it that much harder in reality for them to get a knife because of the super computer savvy guys. You're a knifemaker and probably do not fancy yourself being a computer techniques instructor, but you use the internet/computers to market your wares and so your customers are computer users too. If my father-in-law and mother-in-law can learn (and they have) to copy and paste, then any old timer in this world can learn too.

I'd be glad to write up basic instructions to help anyone with copy and paste. Thanks for listening and really, this is just my small 2 cents worth.

 

[LavaWood]

Keep in mind, if all sales were done at the retailers, the frustration would be much worse when you go to pay and find out it's gone. At least on Friday, you know within a minute if you got it or not.
I think it's fun, occasionally frustrating, but that is coupled by my respect and happiness for your success and the demand.
Look at it like growing pains, the mere fact that folks are emotional, about a KNIFE, is a clear sign you are onto something.
I wasn't a collector of anything until I found you guys. Your output is phenomenal!
I hope your frustration subsides very soon. Coming from a family of artists, I understand where you are right now. If YOU aren't having fun, it's over!

To your frustrated customers:
If someone snags a knife you wanted, send them a polite message that you are interested in it too and you would appreciate the chance to buy if and when they might sell or trade it. More than 50% of what I've bought or sold happened this way.

To the big collectors:
Please consider opening your collections to us. Those that have, thank you!!!

Many of you may not realize how many knives change hands outside of fridays and the market. Be nice and Be patient!!!

Now...about that Bishop

 

[thurin]

Btw, anyone who thinks the current process makes it impossible to buy a Fiddleback should be aware that there are by my count 7 still available from Friday's thread and over 50 available at dealers.

 

[D.H.]

I agree with every single thing that pechelman just said.

In fact, I find Fiddleback Fridays so annoying (mostly because of all the entitlement mavens who fancy themselves Bushcraft Warriors) that I wrote a computer program to do my shopping for me.

I just want to buy some f@cking knives, you know? I don't want to put up with Andy's annoying customers any more than he does.

this probably wont be popular, but calling it as I see it as a relatively new FF customer and a long time BF member:


this is really quite simple, stop the unorganized feeding frenzy. You call it feeding the sharks, and that's exactly what it is.
There's no fairness in the feeding of sharks, hence natural selection. Why in the world would anyone expect this to be ANY different?
By DESIGN this system WILL CULL out those who are unable or unwilling to participate.
Period.

Pretty sure that's not what you want as a business.

Furthermore:
When a Friday thread is posted without weekly regularity (will it be 1130am or 3pm?), without punctuality to scheduled times in the "It's Friday" thread (will it be 45min late because lunch ran long?), and by giving distinct advantages to those with more experience (threads on how to shark successfully are evidence), of course you're going to have these perceptions. The writing's been on the wall a while, and it sounds like most people are not surprised.

I go back to my suggestion from a few weeks back:
Post up all of the knives like you do now, but keep the thread LOCKED or note that sharking claims will not be accepted\honored until your post is time stamped with 7pm (e.g.). Post the thread up AT LEAST 1-2 hours before this time. Give people a chance to breathe, look at the pictures, the descriptions, and then allow the same process as normal.

Sure, it will still be a rush at the hypotethical 7pm, but you'll bring a lot more fairness and equity and regularity to the process.

Alternatively, skip all this forum buying, and host a storefront on your webpage, like other custom knife companies. (i will give examples of Carter Cutlery and Adventure Sworn (who up until recently also did forum buying, similar to how I suggested))

I'd wager if you do this you'd end up with fewer of your brand new knives popping up in the flea market. People will go after the 1 or 2 knives they will need\want rather than take a gable that the bushfinger is actually a SFT 3/16 O1 when they really wanted a TT 1/8 A2.
You might even find that you can hold some stock for longer than 4 hours.


Last but not least, I will note two things;
-Andy noted this is about capitalism and he obviously wants his business to thrive and grow (as we all do)
-Others have noted discontinuing "Fridays" would be a shame because that's how the brand has grown

I'll put it very simply; this business model is no longer sustainable if you want FF to grow. Sure the word has spread, but I think you've reached the max capacity of doing sales on a thread.

 

[catalystman80]

I'm certainly not in the category of a long time Fiddleback patron/supporter. But as I've been buying a Fiddie here and there since the late Summer of '13, I've been around long enough to observe the growth that Andy & Co. accomplished during 2014 which deservedly continues to this day.

My first purchase was in September of '13 during a FBF, and my post to purchase my first (Cherry Crotchwood Bushcrafter, still my fav) was 16 minutes after Andy posted the thread for that Friday. Nowadays, you have to react within the minute of the posting to have a chance at getting a sought after configuration (which for me is still the good ol' repeated F5 taps, thank God Ken notifies us with the approximate time), which speaks to how quickly the customer base grew.

Anyways, during the past ~18 months or so of observing Fiddleback Fridays, as far as I can tell, Andy and his crew have always been consistent with the rules and fair to everyone. I mean, the rules don't get any simpler than it is, you wait till the knives are up, you call dibs, they confirm you're the first one, then you pay, then you get the knife the following week. I can see where people are coming from when they say the posts aren’t made at the same time on Fridays, but locking the posting time to a specific time would also prevent a certain group of people from participating (so I don’t see this being any more fair). I didn't know about the knives being sold outside of FBF's and dealership sales until recently, but that's completely Andy's prerogative.

I don't want to point fingers at the folks who are upset (and sounds like some are longtime customers, which means they’ve contributed to the growth of Fiddleback), because one thing I've learned personally from my own maturation process as a professional and as a person of faith striving to serve those around me is that every individual has his/her own reality. I don't know where they're coming from, so I don't have the basis to provide any constructive feedback.

However (and this is very unlike me to publicly say something like this), one thing I have known recently during the past year is just a slight decline in common etiquette for fellow members (and towards Andy) on the forum. And certain posts (and new mechanisms applied to make such posts), subsequent edits, or recanting of orders during FBF’s seem to be getting on people’s nerves as well. As it’s said, nothing’s new under the sun, and I’ve seen these types of issues on this forum (and others) before, but now every occurrence and its impact is exacerbated by the fact that the customer base has dramatically increased. So what’s changed? Andy & Co. haven’t, they’ve been rock solid and steady. But people and their numbers changed. I guess the question is does the business model have to change to address these changes, and can it sustain itself (and growth) with the way things are. That’s a choice that’s completely up to Andy & Co., like it or not, this is their business. Just like as customers, we have freedom to buy whatever we want.

At a personal level, boycotting Fiddleback to coerce a change from Andy is just downright hurtful. This is a guy who not only provides a functional art for us to enjoy, but takes the time to interact with us. The Fiddleback experience has always been much more than a cold cash transaction you make at a corporate owned supermarket. Now to think there’s a possibility that a certain faction and their actions could change all that is something I don’t want to think about.

 

[D.H.]

To the big collectors: Please consider opening your collections to us. Those that have, thank you!!!

I'm probably not what you would consider a big collector, but I have sharked my fair share recently while looking for knives that I really liked.

For what it's worth, once I figure out how to post some photos here, I'm going to be selling a lot of them off.

 

[tjswarbrick]

Only thing I see to be upset about is that so many people have been turned on to your knives that demand is far outstripping supply. I sure wouldn't want you guys turning in to some kind of automation house to meet it. Therefore, many of us sit on the sidelines, wait, drool, and love the one(s) we've been lucky enough to grab.
It sometimes feels like "there must be an easier way", but it's not like you're going to tell people to stop liking your knives so that other people can enjoy them.
There are other avenues - like the stores, and aftermarket, if there's one somebody has absolutely got to have.
Run your business as you see fit, and those of us who are truly interested will find a way to pick up one of your most useful works of art.

 

[xxwjtxx]

Andy & Co.

I'm really sorry to hear that this is happening to you guys. It seems like some folks on the forum are having some issues with their sense of entitlement over what they are owed / deserve from the world these days. Sadly, I find myself responding to threads like these with greater and greater frequency. To that end, my heart goes out to you guys for having to deal with this crap. Don't stop running your business the way that you want to because a few internet trolls are threatening boycott. You have the MOST trafficked subforum on all of BladeForums, and in speaking among your peers in the knife making community, you are one of the most respected outfits in the game. Don’t change your business practices for some disgruntled man child whose feelings get hurt due to self-inflicted internet drama.


To the community of trolls at large (not man enough to handle their misgivings in a reasonable manner):

This is absurd. Normally, I try to be a good samaritan of the fiddleback community and help resolve conflict, guide new members, and dissuade the occasional troll, but recently this has gotten downright stupid. Is this what things are going to come down to? You people are going to troll / threaten / harass a maker because you didn’t get the high-end, custom bushcraft knife that you absolutely needed to keep lovingly in your safe, and wipe down with an oil-soaked diaper daily?! Get real. I’m not going to get into the user vs. collector debate; I respect both parties, but I would not imagine any legit user calling a maker, crying about having their feelings hurt because they didn’t get their grail for the week…Mind you that the ‘Forge pumps out 30-40 knives EVERY WEEK, along with dealer allocations… Come on. There’s no conspiracy here; no secret brotherhood of fiddleback sharks with direct access to unreleased knives, no hidden maker agendas, or anything like that. Andy & Co. are trying to do right by every single one of us, and accommodate us to the best of our needs… that’s it plain and simple.

For the trolls that swear that there is some monopoly on Fiddlebacks, and that they “can’t get one anywhere”, kindly note that there is a veritable treasure trove of knives at dealers and on the flea market right as we speak; is it a matter that the selection available to you trolls is not worthy of your tastes? Are these knives not good enough for grandiose adventures? If this boiled down to someone actually needing a knife as a tool to survive / succeed in a particular undertaking, I would highly doubt that a knife with micarta scales will perform any differently than one with phenolic pinecone and bog oak burl scales

Think about it… you want to boycott Fiddleback Fridays; great! More knives for the rest of the deserving & new members. Unfortunately, seeing that Andy is a good dude and tries to maintain a level playing field, should we see Fiddleback Friday’s come to an end, prepare to pay over market price for every new fiddleback you purchase from (most) dealers. Oh, and don’t worry, you still won’t be able to get a knife, because all of the same sharks and dedicated forum members (who are serious about obtaining a knife), will swoop in and clean out the dealers, before you have an opportunity to do so yourself.

Why the sense of entitlement? Why not ask Andy & Co. politely for what you want — maybe they will be able to oblige you, maybe they won’t. But handle it like man, regardless of the outcome. If you’re getting this bent over your inability to obtain a custom (luxury?) knife, then I have news for you that, out here in the real world, there are whole lot more important things to worry about than your internet hobby.

Trolls, you will come and go. Personally, if you do want to troll the brand / maker, please do it in our subforum; this way we can get you banned from BF the second things get out of hand! Don’t call, email, or otherwise harass the maker; this is his livelihood and you are now F——g with it… GROW UP

In closing:

It is sad how this subforum has changed over the past 6 months. Maybe this is the price of Andy’s fame / success… I hope it is not, as this type of drama is what will actually drive good customers away. There are a lot of people here for whom I’ve never met, but would readily call a friend based on the manner in which they conduct themselves on the forum and in their dealings with other forum members. There is also a lot of integrity and “good mojo” here that seemingly impossible to find among other knife forums out there; I hope this never changes.

Now, on to donning my flame retardant suit and stepping off my soapbox; rant over

 

[bonafide]

Andy - We can talk more about in person, but I hate disrupting your flow when I visit the shop. If you think this animosity stems from my Sneak Peek threads then I'll either stop doing them all together or I dunno .. maybe we can coordinate so I only take pics of the knives slated to be sold on Friday? I believe the negative emails and angry temper tantrums are coming from those very few people who see a knife in the making and then fantasize about their 'precious' for the next few days - and when it doesnt show up on Friday and they start lashing out and blaming everyone they perceived are the cause. Perfect example of what happened before. It's not normal behavior.

Enhance or diminish the process .. but don't eliminate. That's too close to being self destructive.

Now get back to work!! You've got 60 knives to finish by Friday morning!

 

[Joe Duder]

I haven't received any boycott PMs/emails nor would a I pay much attention to them.

I'm not going anywhere.

 

[D.H.]

I believe the negative emails and angry temper tantrums are coming from those very few people who see a knife in the making and then fantasize about their 'precious' for the next few days - and when it doesnt show up on Friday and they start lashing out and blaming everyone they perceived are the cause. Perfect example of what happened before. It's not normal behavior.

I think you're right, Bud. This is vocal minority that's stirring stuff up. And the behavior is very "off". The term affluenza comes to mind when I try to think of ways to describe the behavior: it refers to a person's "inability to understand the consequences of one's actions because of financial privilege".

Maybe this would be helpful: just put a disclaimer at the top of your threads letting people know that not all the knives photographed will show up for sale online.

Maybe post some knife specs with the photos. Then you'll get less fantasizing and (hopefully) more careful consideration about knife purchasing.

Anyway, time for me to get back to work.

 

[xxwjtxx]

I think you're right, Bud. This is vocal minority that's stirring stuff up. And the behavior is very "off". The term affluenza comes to mind when I try to think of ways to describe the behavior: it refers to a person's "inability to understand the consequences of one's actions because of financial privilege".

Maybe this would be helpful: just put a disclaimer at the top of your threads letting people know that not all the knives photographed will show up for sale online.

Maybe post some knife specs with the photos. Then you'll get less fantasizing and (hopefully) more careful consideration about knife purchasing.

Anyway, time for me to get back to work.

+1 re: affluenza. Back to work for me as well

 

[Ida Ho]

An old fire captain I worked for used to say "Opinions are like a**holes; everybody's got one but a lot of 'em really stink!".
It's your business, Andy- run it as you see fit!!

 

[mgray34]

Maybe this would be helpful: just put a disclaimer at the top of your threads letting people know that not all the knives photographed will show up for sale online.

whhoooosaaaaa .. everyone say it with me ... "whooosaaaaa."

First and foremost, a restated Disclaimer. I have decided to call it the 'Not everyone who has a PhD is smart Clause.'

Warning: The pictures below are some of the knives you may see for sale on Friday. I dont know which ones. I'm not part of the Fiddleback Crew. I'm a customer of Fiddleback & WAS Knives - just like you. I am in no way compensated for these pictures. I dont get per diem (gas, food, lodging, etc). I dont get special pricing or free knives for doing this. I asked myself, 'why should do it?. The answer hasnt changed - no matter how pissed I get at an over-educated bi-polar idiot on the internet - I do it cause I'm a knife fanatic and I want to share my 'check out this cool as shit knife I saw today' experience. Visiting the shop is freaking cool and I know some of you will never get the chance. THIS is why I take the time/resources to share the pictures with you, my fellow Fiddleback freaks. Thus, a small snap shot of my experience from the shop visit today.

I think that's been done in the past...

 

[stollio]

I've only participated in 2 Fiddleback Fridays and have walked away with 2 knives that I love. The first time I didn't get my first choice but BFD. It's just a knife (albeit a very pretty finely crafted one).

Please don't stop FF. They're a lot of fun. Also the Fiddleback community seems pretty awesome, I'd hate to see it decline because of this.

One last thing...people who haven't learned to overcome disappointment by this point in their lives and instead go cry to daddy need to grow up.

Andy and co. at Fiddleback, thanks for all of your hard work.

 

[D.H.]

An old fire captain I worked for used to say "Opinions are like a**holes; everybody's got one but a lot of 'em really stink!".
It's your business, Andy- run it as you see fit!!

Extend this classic a step or two and you wind up with this:

If you make catering to a**holes part of your customer service plan, sooner or later your business is gonna start to smell like sh*t.

 

[krazyjoe66]

I am new to the forum and to FF, I've tried to snag a couple on the last two Friday's to no avail. With that said its been a fun attempt just figured I had to wait my turn since I'm a newbie. I don't see it any different than getting beat out on an auction site or any of FF authorized sellers. This past Friday I was at work and kept checking the site for the post and had a crowd of co-workers into it who thought it was a cool concept, hope things work out. Looking forward to more FFF's!!

 

[D.H.]

I think that's been done in the past...

Well... What do I know?

I can't believe that didn't work.

The Forge needs a new slogan. "Fiddleback Forge knives: they're like getting hooked on crack but stabbier."

Maybe it's for the best that these sales happen online. Can you imagine a room full of Fiddleback customers handling knives together at a shop. What a horror show that would be...

 

[Rick Lowe]

Well said Will! I totally concur with your thoughts and add my voice as a second.

Keep doing the preview Bud, it's a fun thread to see and follow.

Andy, don't let the very, very small minority influence your business model. Your customer base is always going to be fluid, and that's a good thing, and there will always be the small percentage of that fluidity that is prone to unhappiness. Don't let that tiny voice trouble you to this extent. Adjustments can be made to the dynamic, but remember the huge group that is more than solidly with you and your crew.

As a note: Being one of the whiskered old non-computer compliant Fiddleback fans, I was still able to copy and paste on the thread and get my last two weeks picks.

 

[keith-w]

This phenomenon is not unique to Fiddleback Forge. I follow other forums such as Triple Aught Design etc, and people will always complain when highly coveted items are in limited supply. This is what makes them so coveted and desirable, and why people get excited when they do obtain them. It is unrealistic to expect everyone to be happy.

The shark frenzy can get nuts, my pet peeve is people sharking a knife then renigging, which messes up everyone afters bidding potentially.

It is especially intimidating for new people. There is definitely a learning curve to sharking knives. You need to understand the process and be able to identify knife models and handle configurations to really increase your chances. I get it, but at the same time, you should not expect to waltz in as a newcomer and win the specific knife you want on your first visit here. The burden of learning the process is on the customer imo. It takes more time and effort than shopping at Walmart and buying off the shelf.

I am very happy with the 4 Fiddlebacks i won, and i feel i have fair shot at winning more.

I would like to see some custom made-to-order knives available, maybe a drawing of some sort from time to time for a limited number of these would be nice.