Fighting Bowies

vikingblade

vikingblade

Joined
Feb 28, 2002
Messages
85
Hey guys, I'm thinkin bout grabbin myself a new fighting knife..Bowie. Of course, this brings into play the usual suspects in the production market...Ontario's Bagwell Hell's Belle and Fortress, and the Cold Steel Laredo, plus, Cold Steels new Natchez bowie. I know there are lots of custom options as well...I will eventually look there, but Id like to examine the immediate production options currently available first.

The Ontario Bagwells... I know they were extremely popular a while back, so, hopefully quite a few of you guys have handled or currently own one. I had a few questions... The Ontario blades are stainless? Any issue there.. Carbon would be ideal, but... is the stainless a deal breaker for these. Ive also heard the RC Hardness on them is pretty low.. 54-56 or something. Is this an issue with tips bending or edges rolling/dulling easily? Can they take and keep a very sharp edge at this hardness? How sharp do they come? False edge come sharpened as well?

I havnt been able to find any real good in-depth reviews on them. found one, but it was a very early model..not indicitive of what is currently selling. Any links pointing me to some decent reviews would be greatly appreciated. Also, where are all the good pics?? Seems to be very few good pictures of the Ontario Bagwells out there. I keep finding those awful production shots..yuck. Anyone know of any place to find high quality, decent photos of them?

The other thing I am wondering is... Cold Steels Natchez. I know its high priced, but damn, its bloody beautiful. Something about it turns me on. Anyways, again, cant seem to find any decent reviews out there. How do these handle as a fighter... Quick, balanced, or is it just a big, slow chopper. Any input on these beauties would be great. THNX:D
 
The best value in production bowies is Windlass' lineup.

I'm pretty sure I've seen the Natchez bowie discussed in the review&testing subforum. You might want to look through there a bit.
 
Well I have the Fortress for a bed side buddy along with my .45 and probably the nicest balanced bowie I have ever held. It is big, it is sharp and the top clip is wicked sharp. Don't do much fighting with it though:) I have done a bit of manipulation with it and drills on my own and a smoother flowing bowie I have yet to find. Hope this helps. I am not a blade martialist mind you but with a knife like this I don't know if that much matters. keepem sharp
 
The recent Natchez review thread is here. I'm a big fan of both the Natchez and Laredo bowies from Cold Steel.

BUT if I had $1,800 laying around I would love to own Shiva Ki's "Fightin Bowie". The blade is 13.5 inches of pure hand forged goodness.

k26b.jpg
 
Here is where I would agree with the the carbon steel advocates. For a knife of this size, with the level of energy that can be generated, I would want a suitable carbon steel such as 5160 spring steel. Check out Mineral Mountain's bowies. I bought one a few years ago, and thought the guy had retired, but not so at least according to the web site (this is their bowie that I thought was closest to what you are looking for)http://www.mineralmountain.com/wrbowie.htm. I am very happy with mine--definitely is not fancy, but superior in terms of function, and a good price for what it is.

I would go with the 10" blade instead of 12" unless you are the size of Karl Malone.
 
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Although I am more than a little biased, I have handled and have collected several bowies over the years. My go-to heavy use/fighting/scare-the-bejeezus-out-burglars bowie is my Himalayan Imports Cherokee Rose. 20" inches overall with 13" being the blade, beautiful balance, and was designed based on an old Scagel design by a forumite that knows quite a lot about what makes a good knife a good knife. Plus, they can generally be had for about $250.00

Of the true production type, I really like the Bagwell Bowies. They have a very clean finish to them:) I'm also partial to the regular old Cold Steel Trailmaster in Carbon V if you can find it.
 
The Bagwell Bowie knives look really nice - wouldn't mind having one.

Bark River does some nice larger Bowie-style knives on occasion. And inexpensive custom Bowies come up from time-to-time in the For Sale by Maker forum section.

Looking for a more tactical-military style Bowie? If you can get your hands on a Becker BK9, BK7, or similar, they are very good knives. Ek made/makes some too, similar to what Rich357 posted.
 
You can get something heralded by it's German maker as a Bowie - like the Puma Original Bowie below. You can get a true fighting knife - with many users attesting to it's utility - testimony to just how effective the low bidder for a wartime contract can be. Or you can get a modern (Bark River K&T) interpretation of an old Sheffield standard - the Boone. Neat how similar they are - and how you can get any or all of them without breaking the bank.

IMG_0538.jpg


Stainz
 
Thanks for the input guys. That review on the Natchez was helpful too. Im mostly interested in the hardcore fighting style bowies with blades at least 10". geared towards the thrust and back cut etc... typical bagwell, keating style bowie technique. So, I know pretty much what Im looking for as far as bowie style. Mostly wondering how the blades I was leaning towards.. ontario's bagwells and the cold steels stacked up to each other. Which offers the best in Thrusting, cutting, backcut etc.. speed, balance, sharpness. Ideally, Id love get some feedback from someone whos handled them all, and has some experience with Comtech fighting bowie style. Calling, Dwight McLemore, Pete Kautz, Mike Sastre:D:D
 
If the only intended use for the knife is cutting human flesh or hacking finger tips, rolling and chipping of the edge is not likely to be an issue while the work is underway, therefore stainless steel will work just fine.
 
vikingblade,

Just got back from the NRA Convention in Louisville, KY, where I had a chance to visit with Bill Bagwell. For a pure Fighting Bowie, I'll go with a Bagwell Custom as absolute first choice. Nothing moves like a Bagwell! Great balance of speed and power, plus because Bill Bagwell forges his blades, he can tweak the knife so it'll favor one or the other to YOUR liking. That's MY preference. Dwight McLemore, on the other hand, likes a big heavier Bowie that has a lot of power. At present, the CS Natchez is HIS favorite. For its size, the Natchez moves very well, but it is also a little hard to conceal the fact that you're carrying a BFK. I think in terms of concealment because big knives have a habit of upsetting the sheeple, and if you are carrying for self defense, it doesn't do much good if everyone knows you are armed. It's supposed to be the surprise party for those who thought they had one going for you. The Ontarios are very well made production versions of Bill's custom knives (there's still a difference), but are fighters only. You are not going to be able to pass it off as your camp knife with that fighting guard on it. The CS Laredo is a great all around Bowie! It'll do anything you'd want to use a Bowie for well. The Ontarios are a little quicker; the Laredos hit with a little more power. Knife choice, especially Bowies, can and will be subjective. Everybody likes something different and there are no universal absolutes. The Ontario Hell's belle has an 11" blade, the Fortress has a 10.5" blade, as does the CS Laredo. At 5' 9", 160 lbs, I can carry any of them concealed and still move naturally, even sit. I have to "think" about it a little more with the OHB, but the others are a "no brainer" for me. I carry a Bagwell Custom HB, an Ontario Midnight/Fortress, or CS Laredo in that order, and have a Laredo that "lives" in my truck just in case I need it. ALL the knives mentioned here will work very well with the COMTECH Bowie techniques (James A. Keating.com). The deciding factor will be how YOU and the knife fit with those techniques as you understand them now.
 
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I am a big fan of the Keating/Bagwell fighting style. I carry a Scrapyard DFLE but that is more of a using knife that can be used as a weapon. I would probably recommend the production Bagwells. If you are not doing a lot of hard chopping with it the stainless would not be a problem and could even be a benefit if worn close to the body.

One really cool thing about the Bagwell customs is he takes all sorts of body measurements like hand ,forearm etc.

Just today I got a couple nice fighters from Rosarms. Here is the massive but very nice handling Baby next to a DFLE.
While not traditional it would be perfect for a fighting knife and would also look like
your a comic book villian.


Here is the other smaller fighter called the Fox2. With the good handle and false edge it would be easy to conceal and suitable for back cuts. The fit and finish is incredible and it is an very neat steel.
 
I too love fighting styled bowies. Actually, my first question on this forum was somewhat the same as yours. I was interested in reviews and opinions on the Ontario Hells Bell bowie. I ended up buying one on the advice of many satisfied customers. I have had mine since 2000 and I still love it. I have bought many more bowies since then, but I still love the Bell. I will get a Natches by CS someday too as it looks like a great rendition. I will wait for more reviews before I buy though.
Here is a shot of some of my bowies.:thumbup:
 
hey guys, Mr Sastre...thanks for the input. looks like ill probably be getting both a Natchez and ontarios hell's belle:D

Anyone got some good pics of the Ontario's... everything ive seen is pretty low rez crap
 
Two more options you might consider. Cold Steel Trailmaster, and one of the old '60s German Bowies.

Trailmaster has some weight to it, but has good, tough, real steel that will genuinely work for the tasks you're actually LIKELIER to use it for than fighting--cutting wood, cutting up big game you've shot, that kind of thing. I'd much rather have a carbon-steel knife with a near full tang (like the Trailmaster) than one with a small partial tang held into the handle with wire (like the CS Laredo, and, probably, the Natchez). And though I'm fascinated by Ontario Bagwells, I'm concerned about the stainless steel.

The old German Bowie knives you can usually get on eBay for about $50. They have fine 1095 high-carbon steel, and usually can be had with full tangs. Hard to break those. If they're a little too heavy, you could remove a little steel, for example convexing the blade slowly on a belt grinder.

If, on the other hand, a small partial tang doesn't bother you, you might consider a Ka-Bar "Large Heavy Bowie", model 1277. The blade is actually not too heavy--it's got a full flat grind, and quite a pronounced clip point that occupies maybe 1/3 of the blade. It is, therefore, a surprisingly quick blade. The long clip point would be VERY formidable if sharpened. The handle is very thick, so you'd want to figure out a way to address that--maybe thinning it out on a belt sander?

I'm leaving out mention of the Western W49 and the Ontario Marine Raider Bowie, as I'm figuring that those would be too heavy for your preferences. I like them, too, though.
 
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