Fighting the super steel tide?

Dijos

Dijos

Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
2,600
Have we gone too far with Steels? ZPD-189 is the newest hot steel, and I was all excited to buy a Calypso jr in one, but now folks are writing in to say it's hard to sharpen, even harder than D2. Have we gotten to a point that we are using impractical steel? If you need diamond hones or a belt sander to sharpen a knife that's gotten dull, is that ok with you? I am amazed to see steels go out of vogue so fast now...VG10 works great, but how long until it's considered inferior? Your thoughts please..
 
I'm just a dinosaur. My favorite folder is an EKA 88 in Sandvik Stainless. Even ATS-34 can be a pain to reprofile without diamonds. I can't imagine reprofiling CPM S90V. I'll buck the trend and say "Give me steel I can reprofile without a belt sander". ;)

Frank
 
I've been especially happy with Benchmade's 154CM, and Spyderco's ATS34. It just seems that I can get an incredible edge on certain steels from certain companies. But as long as a steel is "at least" 440C, I'm good with it. Apparently I don't use my knives hard enough to notice any great performance difference between steels like 440C and S30V.
 
Super steels?
Bah.
D2 is high tone for me.
I draw the line at Mystery Stainless though.

:D
 
The steel manufacturers have very little to do with what is consumed by the knife community. Every company is looking for the best material available and something to market outside of base alloys. You will always see new and innovative materials used, it's the nature of this business. The mainstream will continue to use the best and most economical materials. Take a look at the car market and you see very similar scenarios. Lots of Taurus's, Camry's, and Accords, but for some reason there are also Mercedes, Lamborghini's, Corvettes, etc. Since there is no perfect steel, everyone will drift to what works best for them or whatever flashy thing they can afford.
 
NO SCHNIKES IT'S HARD TO SHARPEN, HELLO, HELLO,..... IT'S HARDED TO AROUND 65 RC, HELLO, HELLO!!!!!
Well, what did you expect people?
It annoys me to no great end that people are constantly dissing 440C, the supersteel of the 70s, since MANY custom makers still use it, and who know knives better than them.
Did you know that it performs as well, and sometime better than ATS34?
And let me chime in that AUS8 is also pretty damn good stuff, AUS6 is a little softer, but it's easier to sharpen.
 
i love the next steel that will come out and outperform anything on the market now.

But at one point, and it's now, i find that no matter what super duper steel a knife have, it would be practical if the shape of the knife is not practical.

i still carry a Laguiole around because of this. Surgical stainless steel of unknown origin but it works better the all the other knifes that i have.
 
As the steel used in knife blades advances it is natural that the technology of the sharpening tools needs to advance. If you want a blade that resists abrasion you will need a more agressive abrasive as part of the sharpening process. My only demand is that I will not sacrifice sharpness for hardness. By some means I need to be able to put a hair splitting edge on the next super steel or it ain't "super" in my book.

I finally broke down and got a hold of some 1-micron and half-micron diamond paste. With the agressive, yet fine abrasive action of the diamond grit I am finding that more steels are acceptable. When my quarter-micron diamond paste arrives I might really get to like Vascowear.
 
I like experimenting and using new and different steels and find most pretty good but in truth 90% of the time I still have and use a folder with a good ole 1095 blade steel that has worked just fine for a good long while. So what if the steel is coming up on 175 years old compared to other steels being used today. It works even if it does look like hell after a few years of sweat, and oils taking its toll. It still cuts and still sharpens right back up to a good slicing and dicing edge and that is all that matters in the end.

I didn't find ZDP189 or CPMS30V to be any harder to sharpen than anything else. To be honest some certain blades of ATS34 and 154 CM as well as some of the cheaper bottom grade steels like the old 425 MOD and 420J2 blades give me more grief to get a decent edge on.
 
Given the uses we have for an ordinary pocket knife, anything from 440A or AUS-6 is fine. Moving up to 440C or AUS-8 means the edge will get slightly sharper and hold slightly longer.

The latest supersteels are more important for seriously hard use knives, survival or combat zone knives, or knives in specialized uses like leatherwork or constant cardboard cutting. That's where a 65RC ZDP-189 would shine, not in opening envelopes and peeling fruit.

As always, edge geometry and heat treat trump otherwise expensive steels. Custom makers who know how to treat 440C will get incredible results with it -- why should they go through the learning curve on a new steel that their customers will never notice is better?

If I had my choice, all my knives could be 440C or VG-10 and I'd never feel cheated.
 
I try to resist the dark forces of "new steel", but it is very difficult and I am a weak man.
I think my favorites have come down to S30V and VG10, but AUS-8 is'nt bad either.

Having said that...I'm really enjoying my Atlantic Salt with H-1 steel.
There's just something so appealing about a knife that will keep a decent edge and requires virtually no maintenance!

Good luck,
Allen.
 
New super steels are marketing hype...plain and simple. There are enough existing steels to make any kind of knife you want. For example, there were perfectly acceptable dive knives before H1.

One thing about new steels is nobody knows how they stand up over time. One one thread, spyderco indicated they didn't know the corrosion behavior of ZDP-189 and they didn't even give the manufacturer's specifications. Another example, remember the spyderco and I believe Kershaw 440CV first came out at one RC hardness and then this was changed due to brittleness problems. I'd rather have a knife in a steel that has a fully tested heat treat, and time proven properties.
 
My favorite Steels are D-2, 1095, 154-CM/ATS-34, & 440C. Never been real fond of 440A/AUS-6. S30V, VG-10, BG-42, are all good steels but I am perfectly happy with any of my favorite steels mentioned - as long as the heat treat and grind is good.

That being said I did get a Spyderco Calypso Jr. in ZDP-189. It was lightweight and sheeple friendly which makes it perfect as my EDC as a Nurse. So far I have used it to open 4 weeks of medical supplies and it has not lost its edge yet. Then again my Al-Mar lightweight Falcon held its edge too while my work EDC.

As for sharpening D-2, never had a problem with D-2 as much as VG-10. Friend had a old Buck General in 420J that gave me fits trying to get sharp too.
 
anybody remember Gin-1? I liked it,far as I'm concered any decent stuff will do fine i.e. 440A;440C;AUS-6;AUS-8;VG-10 sounds good I'm trading for a Salt 1 Spydie in H1.Ats-34 left a bad tast in my mouth :grumpy: paid $120.00 for a knife and it would get brown spots in my pocket! 440CPMV and that other stuff I care not for..read in Tac Knives that it chips...on a brass rod! :eek: no-thank-you! :D
 
I personally like to see new steels, I dont go out and buy "the steel of the week" but I like to know that someones always lookin for that "perfect steel". Does anyone remember talonite? Thats a hell of a knife steel its just really expensive. Like ZDP would be if it werent layered. There are many diff steels out there that offer diff advantages to the others, I dont see a problem with offering new things thats what keeps the industry goin. yes I do agree that 440C, ATS-34,1096,D2, and others are great steels, and I am always going to own knives that are made in them because they work. But I do like to have a few around that are "super steel" knives whether it be CPM S30V, S90V, ZDP, talonite, or whatever the case. Yeah some might be a pain to sharpen but I know what I bought, and I know what it means to own them and keep them up to snuff. I feel that you shouldnt complain about sharpening something that you knew in advance was gonna be harder than all hell. If its got a RC of 65 or 68 and it holds its edge for a long time, it stands to reason that you would need to put a long time of sharpening into it.
 
Talonite is actually not a steel. It's a cobalt alloy. (Which is why it won't rust.)
 
I am searching for steel which will be hard to sharpen, but unfortunately nothing beat modern sharpeners!!!

Really, what is that "difficulty of sharpening" - I realy laike to experience one but never see problem with wootz, ZDP189, CPM S90V, M2 etc. It is hard to sharpen CPM S90Vto the size less then size of vanadium carbides with ceramic, but diamonds easy doing this - anyway it is way after "hair popping".

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Have started going retro and carrying slipjoints in (gasp) carbon steel.

Still have and carry my super steels, but you know, good old 1095 is nothing to sneeze at.
 
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