File help

the4th · May 21, 2000

The obvious fix would be to buy a belt sander, but the cash just ain't there right now. Sooooo.....

What type of files should I be using to file away steel to profile my blade? I have two fairly new files that I am using to remove minute amounts of metal and cause massive amounts of hand cramps. One file is more coarse than the other, but the finer file seems a bit easier to control.

Is there a brand, type, or rating that I should be looking at or for?

Would the dremel tool suffice? I'm not great with it, but can almost hold my own.

This really, really sucks. If I weren't having so much fun making my very first knife, I'd quit.

Nathan House · May 21, 2000

sorry to hear,about your trouble
get your self a grizzley they are great
for the money about 299
or you could get a Kalamzoo
for around 225,or make yourself one
find an old motor and look around on the
forum there are alot of plans on building your own grinder for next to nothing just
a little elbow grease,sounds like you have that
just workng with files for the price of some good files you can build a good grinder

C L Wilkins · May 21, 2000

Nicholson files are good. I would get a couple at least. A bastard and a mill file. The bastard cut is pretty aggressive with cutting. The mill is much smoother.

C Wilkins

Guy Thomas · May 21, 2000

Files here in the States come in varying degrees of cut. The one most commonly available in hardware stores is the bastard cut, which is a coarse cut designed for rapid stock removal. Get the largest you can find in a mill bastard for the initial filing of the blade bevel. (A flat bastard file would also work but many people feel a mill file leaves a smoother finish.)
Like anything it takes a little getting used to but by varying the angle and pressure of the cutting strokes you you can also achieve
smoother finishes. After the initial stock removal you can use the smaller bastard files to get an even smoother finish.
To get better finishes you will need files in finer cuts, namely second cut and smooth cut, but you will have to order these from tool companies or knife supply houses.
A technique for final precision finishes with files is known as draw filing. You grip the file at each end with both hands and pull the file towards you along the surface you are filing.
Files are time consuming and labor intensive but very satisfying when you find out what you can do with just hand tools and your own skill. Craftsmen for ages have used simple tools to create fine items!
While the finer cut files are probably a must for the serious craftsman/knifemaker you can get by with just the bastard cuts commonly available. A file card or brush is a must, and use it frequently to remove small chips of steel from the teeth of the file. These chips can leave deep gouges in the surface which make final finishing much harder. Handles that fit properly are also a must and I prefer having a handle for each file.
Sorry for being long winded on this subject but I too can't afford a decent belt sander and even if I did, I feel it is a worthwhile effort to develop the skills needed to use files effectively. Besides, who doesn't need a good workout!

-Guy Thomas

[This message has been edited by Silent (edited 05-21-2000).]

Guy Thomas · May 21, 2000

Oh, I almost forgot but the best files and filing techniques won't do squat for you unless you have a decent heavy vise attached to a sturdy (preferably immovable) work bench! Don't be afraid to lean into the work and put your weight behind the cutting action of the file. Take care and file away!-Guy Thomas

[This message has been edited by Silent (edited 05-21-2000).]

Taz · May 21, 2000

As a fellow filer, I know this dilemna all too well. Fortunetly, I think I convinced my parents to let me get a $60 1X30, 5" belt/disc sander from harbor freight. I think it will do for a while, until I get out of college, have a job and can afford a real grinder. Files take a while to get used to. Get the largest mill file you can and look at a Jantz catalog if you can. Home Depot sells Nicholson files for decent prices, I think. You will need a good vise that doesnt wiggle. Mine wiggles and drives me absolutely crazy. Flat grinds turn out more convex for me. Also, I agree with the file brush. i didnt clean my file often enough and have some nasty scratches to get out of the blade, all by hand with a dremel and small grinding stone. What a pain! And no, a dremel wont work to remove that much metal. it is good for getting the gouges out with the sanding bands, but then go over it with very coarse sandpaper to get the dremel marks out. It will take a while, but it should work. I just finished my first knife, made of 0-1 tool steel by hand with files. blade #2 is well on its way, too. Files are fun, but very time consuming.

ckknives · May 21, 2000

Files work just like any other tool. The more time you spend using them, the quicker and more skilled you become. I do all my knives with files. One trick I have used to keep my grinds flat is to anneal a rather large file, have a machine shop grind all the teeth off and grind it flat, then harden and draw back the hardness some, to about HRC 58-59. When I am through with the coarser files, I go to the smoother cutting files, carding them often, if not every stroke. One burr dragged across your flat can cause great amounts of grief. Then I change to the flat, toothless file and wrap it with 180 grit sandpaper, and use it as one would a file. When all the scratches are done from one grit you change to about twice as small a grit. For example from 180 to 320 or 400. At the end of every grit, I wrap a single thickness of paper and draw file with the paper. This really helps keep the flats flat. As soon as you start with the next smaller grit, it is easy to see if you have left any large scratches. I can usually go from a flat piece of steel, to finished, ready for heat treat blade in about 1 1/2 to 4 hours depending on size. When I forge knives, I only use the sandpaper covered metal and can go from forged to ready for heat treat, ususally in less than an hour. Here is a pic of a medium sized knife that took about 2 hours to go from flat stock to ready for heat treat.

After heat treat, I use only the sandpaper wrapped steel with only one layer to keep the flats correct and flat. I would be willing to answer any questions you may have on my process. Feel free to email.

Charles Kasicki
ckknives

[This message has been edited by ckknives (edited 05-21-2000).]

[This message has been edited by ckknives (edited 05-21-2000).]

LRICE · May 21, 2000

Rub some soapstone, available at welding supply stores, on your files regularly and it will help them keep from clogging.