File knives

Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Messages
1
Hello everybody! newbie hear! I`m just getting started in making knives,I`ve got a couple of kit that i`m working on.I have a couple of questions on making
knives from old files and old band saw bladesbut i don`t know where to begin.I don`t have a forge,i do have a belt and disc sander,along with a hand and bench grinder.I had a friend tell me that his dad made him a dagger from an old file and he put it in his wife`s oven to cure as he put it.All help is greatly appreciated........Rocky
 
I just finished making a knife from a file. Use only nicholson brand files though. I used a bench grinder to cut all the rough parts off but be carefull not to make the file too hot to touch or you will ruin the temper. Keep dipping it in water after every second pass or so. Cut the blade shape out of the steel again be carefull to keep it cool. then stick it in the oven for 2 hours @ 400 degrees farenheight. Then sand it down until you got a nice smooth finish and epoxy the scales on. I ll find the thread with the knife I made and post it.
 
I've watched a Youtube video that demonstrates the making of a knife from a file, beginning with annealing - heating the steel to remove the hardening, in a charcoal fire. Then the knife is ground to the rough shape, then tempered again, and then sharpened. Someone may post the link.
 
I've made a couple of knives from files. One cracked during hardening, the other I ground without softening. It took a long, long time to grind. If you want to make one without annealing it first, most of the grinding would be accomplished faster on the bench grinder. I removed the teeth and profiled the blade on an 8" wheel bench grinder, then ground the bevel and sharpened on a belt sander. If you're going to go to the trouble to anneal it first, then grind, then reharden, new bar stock is much cheaper than a file. You can get several feet of one of the simple carbon steels like 1095 or 1075, or you can get low alloy steels like 5160 and 9260. The price will depend on alloy, but for the 1095 and 1075, 6-9 feet of bar will run between $6-15$ depending on width and thickness. Search for Admiral Steel and check out the blade steels catalog pdf. Shipping is about $10-$15, depending on weight and location. A new 10" file is about $10, you only get one knife from it, and if you anneal and harden again, you kinda have to guess what the alloy is.
 
I've watched a Youtube video that demonstrates the making of a knife from a file, beginning with annealing - heating the steel to remove the hardening, in a charcoal fire. Then the knife is ground to the rough shape, then tempered again, and then sharpened. Someone may post the link.

here is part 1,2,3 and 4 of greenepete's videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ysKd1cswlo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIvyPxyVKQc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XGnc8mgEBE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBcxo4ojmgo

It really would be easiest to anneal, grind it, then heat treat it and temper it.
 
Welcome to Bladeforums!

Let’s see if we can find the right forum …
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I say the same thing often, but it isn't likely to change anyones mind:

Use a known steel for your first knives. You don't have the proper equipment or experience to make knives from unknown steels.

If you don't have a forge or any way to anneal and HT the file, you could, at best, just try to grind one to a rough knife shape on a grinder. That would be fine if you were trying t survive in the wild against wolves, or in prison making a shiv. However, if you want to make a nicer(and probably more successful) first knife, get a small piece of 1080, O-1, 5160, or similar steel. It will come pre-annealed. You can make the knife with files and sand paper.Send it out to be properly hardened and tempered, and assemble a first class knife that you will be proud of for a long time.

All files are not the same, and some are not suitable for knives. All band saw blades are not the same, either. Both files and band saw blades cost more than steel, and are of more use to make the knife than to be the material for the blade. When asked if I use files to make my knives, I say," I use files to make all my knives. I use them to file the blade steel, fit the guard,etc."

Welcome to the forums.
Stacy
 
...Use a known steel for your first knives. You don't have the proper equipment or experience to make knives from unknown steels...

Heck Stacy, I don't even have the right equipment to make knives from unknown steel, perhaps if I ever find a good crystal ball that works;) Experience I have, and while it can give you the edge on the guessing game, what all of my experience tells me is that is not worth it.

I started out using files when I was around 10 and worked up through plenty of scrap steels, there was a lot of heartache and anguish over shooting in the dark and overcoming a previous heat treatment that had nothing to do with what I wanted. Then when I actually added up the price of a new bar of steel with an open mind it didn't take me long to spend the few dollars to have a pristine piece of known material delivered to my doorstep. But all the previous years I was in love with the idea that I was making a knife with a history, one with character, and if a file cut steel it had to be the best steel in the world for cutting things in my mind. And to top it off I had read about really famous bladesmiths that use files, leaf springs and other scrap, and they were really famous so they had to make great knives!

This is not a parody, it is exactly what I personally went through and how I looked at things, until I started working that new steel. Oh I had a period of doubt as I adjusted to steel that would actually break if bent after the quench if not tempered properly, all of my scrap steel knives bent really well so something was wrong. When I realized that what was wrong was the criteria I had been fed about performance all my troubles went away. Years later when asked if I could do it over what would I do different, without hesitation I would have erased those years wasted on trying to make a good tool out of unknown scrap, and I got angry at those "famous" smiths who had me chasing my tale. Starting out with steels that I had to guess about didn't give me any useful practice for later on, all it did was create bad habits that I had to overcome and relearn later. A clean slate is much easier to write on than one full of scribbles.

So when I (or Stacy as I am sure he would agree), suggest losing the scrap for a fresh known piece of steel, we honestly are not trying to be elitist steel snobs looking down our noses at folks. We are genuinely trying to give our best advice to help folks skip the hard knocks an trial and error headaches we had to endure; one doesn't know how much harder it can be until you have been there done it and then saw the other side.

I guess one could consider enduring the previous paragraphs of preaching a small price to pay for me to break down and give the generic heat treating advice that may work for file steel:

Heat the file up until glowing red in a fire and allow it to slowly cool. This will undo the original heat treatment that allowed it to cut steel, so that you can cut it with another file or a grinder, then shape it and hand sand it to no more than 200X. Next heat it again in fire but carefully so that it comes up slow and even until it goes non-magnetic and is an even bright red throughout. Now without wasting any time plunge it into as large container of quenchant as possible and keep the blade moving under the surface, either spine to edge or point to tang, but never flat to flat. (I will not even touch what quenchants to use since that would spawn at least three more pages of how to avoid what the "experts" say:rolleyes:) When cold, clean the blade off and get it into your oven ASAP and bake it at 375F for 2 hours. If it still seems too hard bake it again at 400F.

Work with this method for a while and if you ever get a chance to get real steel I implore you to give it a try and see if it changes all of your ideas about what was covered here.
 
Rockyone,

if you're serious, Fill out your profile info, read as much of the info as you can in the helpful hints for newbies and experienced users sticky at the top f the question and answer forum,

(It is currently labeled something like "do not read this" in an attempt to get folks to actually read it I assume)

then email me, quoting this, I will send you an email requesting your ship to address and send you a file sized piece of some of the 1084 I got from Mace and Aldo to try out. If you like it get some from them, if you don't, go back to files. I made my first blades from files, they worked well, but not as well as the blades I have since made from O-1, 1084, and W-1, and I would rather pay for good steel than fight with free files or other such mystery metal. The people who know me will point out that I do still sometimes forge a blade out of a crowbar, but that's really just playing.If I am making a serious blade I use new known steel. Period. the time wasted overcoming the limitations of something that once was a file or coil spring, or (insert the mystery scrap of your particular choice here) are generally not worth it

-Page
 
I just finished making a knife from a file. Use only nicholson brand files though. I used a bench grinder to cut all the rough parts off but be carefull not to make the file too hot to touch or you will ruin the temper. Keep dipping it in water after every second pass or so. Cut the blade shape out of the steel again be carefull to keep it cool. then stick it in the oven for 2 hours @ 400 degrees farenheight. Then sand it down until you got a nice smooth finish and epoxy the scales on. I ll find the thread with the knife I made and post it.


I would think making a knife out of a file without annealing it would be rough on belts. How many belts did you go through?
 
I would think making a knife out of a file without annealing it would be rough on belts. How many belts did you go through?

Actually I used a bench grinder with a brand new wheel and only wore it down about 1/4 of an inch.:thumbup:
 
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