Files into Knives

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Sirmasta

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Jan 14, 2011
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I am currently making a knife from a file. I am grinding it with a solid bench grinder. It is not turning out the way I had hoped for. Too many lines from the grinder. I need to use a finer grit and see about getting these lines out. Any advice besides " throw it away and start over with a steel stock bar" would be appreciated.
 
Sirmasta said:
I am currently making a knife from a file. I am grinding it with a solid bench grinder. It is not turning out the way I had hoped for. Too many lines from the grinder. I need to use a finer grit and see about getting these lines out. Any advice besides " throw it away and start over with a steel stock bar" would be appreciated.
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I made this from a old bastard file, first knife I ever tried. I used a bench grinder, a 1 inch belt sander and regular sandpaper and elbow grease. It just takes a while without better tools. You just have to go slow and be careful.
IMG_1861Medium.jpg
 
I don't have any I really want to take pictures of, because I have about eight done, I just don't have any finished. :p
But here's how I do it.
  1. Chuck it in a fire, let it get red hot, then let it cool slowly. (soften it)
  2. Grind away, to get the basic shape you want
  3. make it smooth with a file.
  4. light up the fire again, chuck it in, wait for it to get red hot, then dunk it in a bucket of ice water, or oil until it's cool. (harden it)
  5. take it and run it on a belt sander until the edge looks finished to your liking. (I use a portable belt sander turned upside down, not safe to do, but it works if you're cheap and dumb like me :D)
  6. Polish until you're satisfied.

You can take the ugly marks out by hand with a cheap hardware store stone or a lot of sandpaper but it takes a long time with hardened steel. When I tried, it took the entire Star Wars Trilogy and a disk of Buggs Bunny cartoons to finish it. That's when I turned to the upside down belt sander.
 
You might want to contact Michael Morris as he makes excellent knives out of all types of files and rasps. You can see his work on his website at michaelmorrisknives.com. My son purchased one of his knives at a local gun show a couple of years ago and they look great.
 
Sirmasta said:
I am currently making a knife from a file. I am grinding it with a solid bench grinder. It is not turning out the way I had hoped for. Too many lines from the grinder. I need to use a finer grit and see about getting these lines out. Any advice besides " throw it away and start over with a steel stock bar" would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

why are you using a file as a starting point? you can buy flat bar stock in about any steel or size you want.
 
xmtgx said:
Some people have old files laying around, and files are cheaper then any decent barstock.
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IMO, files have 4 draw backs:
1. they're already hardened so you have to anneal them.
2. they only come in certain sizes (you can order bar stock in many different sizes and thicknesses)
3. they have lines cut into them.
4. you might not know the file's exact grade of steel.

you can get a piece of annealed 1080 for about $3-$6. in the $8-$10 range you can get some O1 or 52100.

the positives of using files are:
1. if you already own them you don't have to buy them, or you might be able to buy used/old files for next to nothing.
2. the challenge or fun of turning a file into a knife.
 
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Anyway, I am going to actually get some bar stock but I wanted my first knife to be a file I had from my toolbox. It is starting to turn out better. I used a dremel with a small sand paper roller. It put some dents in it that I am rubbinh by hand with a sheet of sandpaper but they are extremely hard to get out. Those of you that are interested, I will be posting a pic soon after I finish. I think with a lot of patience I can make this knife look at least presentable.
 
Div4gold said:
I made this from a old bastard file, first knife I ever tried. I used a bench grinder, a 1 inch belt sander and regular sandpaper and elbow grease. It just takes a while without better tools. You just have to go slow and be careful.
IMG_1861Medium.jpg
Click to expand...

By the way, your knife looks incredible! Especially for your first knife. I can tell that you must have spent a lot of time learning and reading before you took this on. I have read 2 books and spent countless hours studying about steels, alloys and bladesmithing before I felt confident enough to take on my project.
 
Sirmasta said:
Anyway, I am going to actually get some bar stock but I wanted my first knife to be a file I had from my toolbox. It is starting to turn out better. I used a dremel with a small sand paper roller. It put some dents in it that I am rubbinh by hand with a sheet of sandpaper but they are extremely hard to get out. Those of you that are interested, I will be posting a pic soon after I finish. I think with a lot of patience I can make this knife look at least presentable.
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did you anneal the file first?
 
1. Anneal it if you haven't, it is easy

2. Drawfile it or use some 150 grit wrapped around something really flat to sand it. (I use a piece of precision ground 01) The scratches should go away pretty quickly. Keep your file or paper clean, don't let any metal dust build up either, it will cause scratches.

3. If you have a Nicholson or Black Diamond file you might be able to figure out what steel it is and heat treat it correctly. If not you can harden it but it might not come out right.

Good luck, file knives are cool!
 
xmtgx said:
Some people have old files laying around, and files are cheaper then any decent barstock.
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Unless they are cheap, case hardened junk, no new files are going to be cheaper than bar stock. If someone got them for free or whatever, that's a different story, but most people don't have any steady supply of quality "cheaper than bar stock" files.

My advice would be - don't use a bench grinder. Get a sharp file and work with annealed steel.
 
These guys have a solid point about bar stock and annealing the file, but I hear where you're coming from. The nice thing about starting with files is that they ARE already hardened, so you if you're careful not to overheat them while grinding, you can skip the hardening and just temper them in an oven. If you just want to make the knife and not worry about the HT stuff yet, just poke along with the dremel and bench grinder, then go to sand paper.
Or you can temper at 380 or so now, and it will soften it just a tiny bit. Might help.
 
andybill said:
The nice thing about starting with files is that they ARE already hardened, so you if you're careful not to overheat them while grinding, you can skip the hardening and just temper them in an oven..
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That's the way to go. If you're going to the trouble to anneal, re-HT and temper etc, you're much better off with new, known steel.
 
GWashington1732 said:
You can take the ugly marks out by hand with a cheap hardware store stone or a lot of sandpaper but it takes a long time with hardened steel. When I tried, it took the entire Star Wars Trilogy and a disk of Buggs Bunny cartoons to finish it. That's when I turned to the upside down belt sander.
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Amen Brother! Put an 80 grit belt on and start grinding. Once I used a belt sander/grinder there was no way that I could go back to using files.

I have two Hard stone grinders and don't use them for much except profiling blanks. They're not really very useful for grinding bevels on blades except for roughing it out. To get a smooth finish you will end up using sandpaper, either in sheet form or belt form.

My dad made a knife from an un-annealed file when he was a kid using a hand-crank grinder. He said it took him all summer to get it done. Personally I would be afraid that accidentally dropping it could cause it to crack.

Why would someone want to make a knife from a file when they could use annealed barstock? Well heck, why would someone want to make a knife at all when they could get one quicker and easier from a store? I guess the answer might be "Because I want to!" or "Because I can." Why not? There is a long tradition of making knives from files. Best of luck.

- Paul Meske
AKA LonePine
 
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"dunk it in a bucket of ice water" :D :D :D

Please don't do that, unless you like to see your hard work shatter into little pieces.
 
I've made a couple from files, I took some, threw them in the oven at 400* for a 2 hours (so they aren't too brittle) and went to town on my belt grinder. It made a ton of sparks, and got hot faster than annealed steel, but keep a bucket of water next to the grinder and dip it every pass (especially on finer grits cause they heat up faster), and you'll be fine. If it changes color, like to blue, that whole blue section is ruined. You'll either need to modify the shape of the knife, or take a breather and start over. I've been there and done that.
 
For what it's worth, annealing/tempering/etc are all time at temperature. While it's not ideal to get it so hot that oxide colors form, I have serious doubts as to weather or not the heat treat is ruined at that point. I'm not recommending grinding them until they turn blue, but I don't think folks understand that it's not an instant process. If it were, you wouldn't have such long temper times.
 
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