Files into Knives

AcridSaint said:
While it's not ideal to get it so hot that oxide colors form, I have serious doubts as to weather or not the heat treat is ruined at that point.
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I see your point. On the other hand, some say to never ever sharpen on a belt because it reaches X-degrees at the very edge even if you can't see a color change, no matter how careful you are, and the temper is ruined. I take that with a bit of a grain of salt... I've sharpened a lot of blades on a belt and they all held up just fine. Then again, I don't have an accurate way to really measure that. *shrug*
 
I'm aware of the belief, but at the end of the day, even if that thin section were "ruined" it would still be the most efficient way to put the edge on your knife and then stone to the "good stuff".

All of it is speculation, as far as I'm concerned, because we don't have any testing or measurements to say how long it was X temperature and how much of what part was at that temp. Best practice just remains to not overheat, of course, but I wouldn't worry about the world ending if you saw some oxide forming and cooled it off quickly.
 
My first real file knife broke while hanging on the wall, 1/2 of the blade just fell to the floor.
It was a real good lesson for me. I had not annealed, normalized or heat treated, just ground it as it was. Sure was pretty though!
 
Danbo said:
"dunk it in a bucket of ice water" :D :D :D

Please don't do that, unless you like to see your hard work shatter into little pieces.
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Danbo beat me to it.

My first knife was made from a Nicholson Black Diamond file. I started it when I was 14, I finished it when I was 19. I finished a few in between, and I still have the 5th blade I made from a file (double edged dagger) wrapped up in cardboard in my shop. Fortunately when I got to the point of finishing I got help from a metalsmithing grad student at RIT who showed me how to heat treat using a 130 degree olive oil quench followed by 3 400 degree for an hour temper cycles, and I had reliable hardening, and teh only time I ever cracked a blade on quenching was when I used a piece of air hardening steel and oil quenched it. (I found out later it was air hardening) I still use that blade, it just has a 3/8 inch deep crack extending in from the cutting edge.

Do not use water for hardening. I would also tell you to use known alloy steel barstock, but you do not want to hear that. Not *my* blisters <shrug> meh

good luck

-Page
 
AcridSaint said:
I'm aware of the belief, but at the end of the day, even if that thin section were "ruined" it would still be the most efficient way to put the edge on your knife and then stone to the "good stuff".

All of it is speculation, as far as I'm concerned, because we don't have any testing or measurements to say how long it was X temperature and how much of what part was at that temp. Best practice just remains to not overheat, of course, but I wouldn't worry about the world ending if you saw some oxide forming and cooled it off quickly.
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Well said :thumbup:
 
The most simple solution is how does it cut? (I use hemp rope) Second is the edge flex test, but I usually do the edge flex test first.
 

I grinded and dunked into cold water. I went a couple of passes each time before the cool down. My blade is almost finished and I'm trying to post the pic but am having trouble.
 
I agree with most of you all and am glad of the responses. I left some of the file lines on the top of the blade, the spine. In case I'm hunting and have to file my finger nails. J/K :)
 
Sirmasta said:


I hope this image works
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You have to use a photo hosting site like 'photobucket'. You upload your picture to it and copy the 'image file'. and then post that link. You can't post a computer file as a link to the photo and have it show up like you just did.
 
Files are a buck apiece at the local flea market. For messing around before commiting cash, they're not bad. I annealed mine in the woodstove - makes a WORLD of difference. Also, getting off all the teeth entirely seems futile without a serious grinder, and if you've got a serious grinder you probably want some serious knife stock. I've made 3, one is now my bench knife. My friend who has long progressed passed files also has a knife-from-file bench knife with some remaining teeth.

Don't despair of files, but they really have to be tempered or annealed first.
Having reached a certain low level of competence I decided from here on out it will be proper stock, that way I can design the knife *I* want instead of the one the file wants. :-/.

-Daizee
 
Thanks for all the info guys and if you are, gals. I have progressed a whole lot since my first post and have moved to barstock. I think the file knives are still really cool. I also have been making knives out of chainsaw bars! These are free from a friend. The files are easy to find around these small country farm towns. I can get a mess of Nicholson files for about a qaurter a file. Anyway, thanks again!
 
Grinding prehardened stock is really not that bad. In fact I find that grinding a file hard (tempered at 400 F first) to be not to much more difficult than grinding M4 soft. There are allot of techniques and compromises that can be used to make it work out. I grind almost exclusively hard stock, I find that it is actually much cheaper this way, and I dont have to deal with heat treatment. Granted I only make a couple of blades a month, but for me it works out. your mileage may vary
 
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