Finished first hidden tang, couple questions

S

Sandeggo

Joined
Nov 17, 2014
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I got my first hidden tang relatively finished. It took hours of filing to get the guard to fit nicely. I have a mill but didn't want to cut too close. Do some of you seasoned makers have any recommendations on speeding up the process?. Also how deep into the handle material should the tang go? This one is a few inches long stopping short of the end of the maple about 3/4". Next time I plan to make the tang a little thicker as this piece feels unbalanced. This tang was tapered so to cut the pocket in the maple I used a drill press to drill 2 holes and then walleyed it out. How tight does the tang need to fit? Please be easy on me as this is like my 4th knife. First hidden tang, first laminating multiple handle materials, and first time doing filework. All have been made from files as I haven't been able to find a metal yard that carries high carbon in all of San Diego. Any suggestions finding some?
Blade:Nicholson file
Handle: maple gunstock floor sample from HD, black delrin, orange pen blanks from a buddy
Guard: 308L stainless steel
Pin: 1/8" brass welding rod
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Have a look through the stickies for more information. Aldo at New Jersey Steel Baron is a great supplier of steel for blades.

Re the guard: It gets easier and faster with practice. I use an end mill one size smaller than the thickness of the ricasso. From the back, use an end mill one size larger than the ricasso. This means you only have to file the front of the guard to fit. I leave about 3/32 to 1/8" of the front of the guard for fitment. I use JB Weld to backfill the guard, and seal the joint.

I leave the tang 3/4 the length of the handle.
 
Wow that should speed up the filing work on the guard. Thanks for the help. Now I just gotta buy more endmills
 
I'm in the same area, I just buy from Aldo. I keep meaning to stop in the metal supply place near the Escondido Harbor Freight but never have. I've you you have to buy local for some reason I would look around the National City area, there's some kind of steel district down there and would be my best bet. There's a ceramic supply place down there too where I was able to buy fire clay for my heat treat oven.
 
zhyla said:
I'm in the same area, I just buy from Aldo. I keep meaning to stop in the metal supply place near the Escondido Harbor Freight but never have. I've you you have to buy local for some reason I would look around the National City area, there's some kind of steel district down there and would be my best bet. There's a ceramic supply place down there too where I was able to buy fire clay for my heat treat oven.
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Escondido metal supply only carries low carbon. I'll check down in national city, I work down there. Know the name of the place? I still have to build a forge. Thanks
 
A lot of people use 410 or 416 stainless for guards. The 300 series tends to work harden quickly. I did one guard out of 300 series stainless, and bought 410 right after that. One of the 300 series is free machining, 303? or 304? I would have to look it up again.

Order 1084 (if you plan to heat treat yourself) from Aldo or one of the other suppliers such as AKS, Texas KS, or others listed in the supply section of the stickies. You can get the 400 series stainless from them as well.
 
I finished up my second hidden tang over the course of yesterday and this morning, it's a little different but I'm pretty happy with how these are coming out seeing as this one is like my 5th or 6th knife.
Roughed in
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After 1 coat of Danish oil to sneak a peek before thanksgiving dinner.
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Today after sanding up to 1200 and a polish and buff. Like 3 more layers of Danish oil.
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And those are 5.56 casings for a lanyard eye
 
Very cool, glad I'm not the only amateur knife maker around here.

Get that forge built, a knife isn't a knife until it's hardened!
 
zhyla said:
Very cool, glad I'm not the only amateur knife maker around here.

Get that forge built, a knife isn't a knife until it's hardened!
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This is hardened, I have a makeshift forge that I threw together out of welding bricks and a torch. It works but is god awful slow.
 
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scotchleaf said:
I like your guard very much. The easiest way to fit the tang is to drill out a hole bigger than the metal tang into the wood, then fill it with two part epoxy, then either push in your knife and let it set, or coat the tang in vasaline, push it in, remove it, and let it dry with a perfect hole.



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This page showed me the idea: http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=18259&st=0&p=170258&fromsearch=1&#entry170258
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Hmmm... pretty much like bedding a rifle stock. I know folks are using Accraglass but I haven't heard of them going to the point of oversizing a tang hole to that point. A lot of the higher level makers I've studied try and get the tang hole to have a very tight fit by boring it out with rasps/files. This seems a world easier than filing out a tang hole which leads me to believe that if there weren't issues with the method then top makers would be doing it. I can't help but wonder how the epoxy would function structurally if there was a climate/humidity change and the wood swelled/contracted. Interesting though and I'll be interested to see what others have to say.
 
scotchleaf said:
I like your guard very much.
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Thanks for the compliments. I'm trying to experiment with different materials that were free or what I have on hand. My buddy gave me acrylic pen blanks so why not try them out. Your epoxy in the tang hole idea is what I essentially did but didn't remove the blade. I'm getting a tight fit but it's also a sloppy hole. Instead of one uniform surface it's "bumpy". The epoxy fills the lows.
 
Great work. Design wise, for me, the spine to handle transitions seem to lack flow. The top of the blade and whole handle should work together.
 
PT Doc said:
Great work. Design wise, for me, the spine to handle transitions seem to lack flow. The top of the blade and whole handle should work together.
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Agreed, I can't wait to actually get material where I can start doing curves and stuff. On these 2 knifes I used the file tang for the knife tang and it's limiting what shapes I can do as I run out of material fairly quick.
 
I have suggestion for you newer makers.

I ONLY BUY FROM KNIFE SUPPLY HOUSES! Large suppliers that sell a lot of low carbon and mild stainless to fabricators can get their stock mixed up or really don't know that much about knife steels.. You want to buy from someone that can send you a copy of the analysis report on a given steel.

I am not plugging anybody,
But there are only about 5-6 supply houses I would buy my steel from and I really only buy from two currently.
A bad batch or the wrong steel won't mean much to someone building a hand railing or go-Kart etc but it can mean untold headaches and lousy knives to us!
 
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