Fire Bricks and Torch

Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Messages
19
OK, I have two options to start heat treating. The first is a torch, with the blank laid on one fire brick, and another brick behind as a reflector. The second is a two brick forge. I have two torches, the Benz starter propane one, and a MAP one. Below this message is a link to a a store that carries it, as I haven't figured out how to post pics yet. At the time I bought it, I didn't know about two brick forges or I would have gotten one with the plastic section farther away from the tip, like the nicer Benz one. Has anyone used, or known anyone who's used, this torch with a 2 brick forge? If so, how well did it work?

http://www.stinehome.com/ace-map-pro-torch-kit.html
 
I know that some people have used the Benzo ts4000 successfully with a 2bf. I don't see a btu rating for the model you posted, but if it's capable of similar output, it should work.

I use an Atlas burner with a 10psi regulator that has a ball valve to lower the output (10psi is overkill for what I do). The reg is not ideal, but the burner is nice.

I'm not sure if you're forging or just heat treating, but there are a ton of options. Do a search here on the forum and you'll find a couple of days reading. Before you spend any more money, I'd start read up. You might find that there is a completely different solution that better suits your needs.
 
Don't use bare blanket those fibers are nasty to breath in. Use a 2 brick forge or a pair of tongs to hold the blade while you torch it. Or even better send it out for heat treat so you know the job will be done right.
 
Petersons Heat Treat will do 20 knives of same steel for $100 with about a 2 week turnaround. Can't be beat. Unless you do one blade at a time. I just make a batch, send them in and have plenty to work on over the months.
 
I'm sure that many folks who post here know more about heat treating than a newbie. Then again, how is one to learn how to heat treat without doing it? I'm here to learn. If a person prefers farming out the heat treat, buying a finished blade, or a knife kit, that's their choice. Mine is to learn how to do it, and carbon steel of reasonable thickness, is where I plan to start. Thank you for the positive advice.
 
HT is as much an art as it is a science when using simple methods. Here are a few things that can get better results:

Use a magnet to determine when the steel reaches 1414F. It will suddenly stop attracting the blade at that temperature. The temp you want for most simple carbon steels is about 50-75F higher than that. That will be about one shade of red brighter.

Do your HT in a reasonably dim location. You can see the colors much better that way. I prefer to do HT by color at night and with only a single 75W light burning behind me. Avoid bright sunlight, as it greatly changes the colors you see. At the very least, do the HT in full shade.

Heat as evenly as possible. Keep the blade moving and turning. Try and heat the spine first, and allow the color to move toward the edge and tip. It is often hard to avoid, but try and not overheat the edge and tip any more than you can. Also, remember that it is the edge that you need hard. If the entire edge is at the right temperature, go ahead and quench.

Don't be afraid to re-do a HT. If after the quench the edge is still soft, just do it over and heat a little more. Test the edge right after quench with a newer file. File the edge at a 45° angle and see if it skates like you were filing on glass. If the edge is hard, good. If it files away easily, try again. Sometimes it takes a couple of file strokes to cut away the decarb and hit the hard steel, so if it bites in, give it a few more strokes before declaring it a bad HT.

A good setup for a torch HT is to place the bricks to make an "L" or a sideways "U". Hold the blade in the sheltered place and use the torch with the other hand to heat it up by playing the flame over it. Long nose pliers from HF work fine for HT tongs. Go slow and watch the blade as it heats up. Have the magnet stuck on something next to the heating area, and occasionally touch the blade to it as it gets red. When it stops sticking to the magnet, the steel is at 1414F. Heat a little higher and quench immediately in warm ( 120-130F) canola oil.

Before you do HT on a blade you have a lot of time in, practice on some steel. Get a bar of the same type steel you will be using to make your knife from. About 1/8" by 3/4" works well. Cut half a dozen 4" pieces off and very roughly grind an edge on them with a point on one end. No need to make it pretty or knife looking, just an edge and a tip is all you need. Practice doing your HT on these ( you can re-use these several times) and learn how the steel looks and how to use your torch and magnet to get the steel to right at 1475-1500F. Once you have that down pat, do the actual knife.

For the type of HT methods you will be doing, use the most simple to HT steels. 1084 is called the eutectoid, and is the easiest. 1060, 1070, 1075, 1080 will also work with simple HT methods. 5160 and O-1 aren't too bad, but you have to try and hold them for a minute or two at the target temp. Don't try higher alloy or hyper-eutectoid steels. 1095, 52100, W2, and any air hardening or stainless steel will need a better HT method.
 
And use a muffle if you aren't getting even heating.

I had problems getting my first blade to heat evenly. Bought a 1.5"x6" black pipe nipple and placed that in the forge. My heating was much more even, and frankly, took a lot of the stress out of the job.
 
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