Fire by Friction comments

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Aug 17, 2006
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Rather than muck up the previous thread about someone's Flint kit I thought I'd start another thread.

My experience runs along Don Rearic's, I've studied the various methods of producing fire from scratch, from Primitive up to Modern. IMO the joy of learning all the methods is akin to someone who wants to get a certain level college degree.

Let's say that a Bic or matches is grade school, the Ferro Rod/Mag block is a High School degree,the Flint & Steel an AS degree, the Fire Bow a Bachelor's Degree, and the Fire Plow/Hand Drill a Master's Degree. Can you see the progression of difficulty as it rises through the levels of education, good; then one can ascertain that it will be equally difficult in the field to replicate. After schooling one's self as far as they are interested in the various methods; one can then choose the method(s) with which they prefer to light their fires with. Remember the difficulty with which each method attains fire, and that one must duplicate this in the field to get results, regardless of conditions.

Matches/Bic, easiest way to light most fires using some basic common sense.

Ferro Rod/Mag Block next with some patience and practice.

Fire Bow takes regular practice and skill in making up the set if your set gets lost.

Fire Plow/Hand Drill is something you either have the knack for doing or it's just going to make you cry.

If you had a choice in the same conditions which makes the most sense to use:confused::foot: If you have some time on your hands which then:confused: If you are bored to tears and the fish are'nt biting which then:confused:

Another note not frequently mentioned in Fire by Friction conversations is the incredible sweat one can build up in getting any of these methods to work. That can spell hypothermia in an otherwise already precarious situation; which is why I prefer the more modern fire methods.

This is not to say one can't enjoy learning all the processes to add to their skill sets, it's just not genuinely necessary to know all of them IMO.
 
I prefer the Ferro rod..... with a back up of matches/Lighter...I am still practicing the fire bow drill thingy ....and if the fish ain't biting it is to hot for a fire in Texas.... LOL :D
I do agree with your Analogy :thumbup:
 
Lighter or matches first, then mag block/ferro rod for me. Friction fire is fun can can be challenging to the point of frustration. I really got interested in it because it seems the most basic and primal thing, taking something you find out in nature and making fire from it. Plus it's really cool.
 
I also prefer using a ferro rod but there's something to be said about being able to make fire by rubbing two sticks together.

Not that I ever have.
 
Tracker, agree with your post, but would like put it to a larger context.

Matches, ferro rod, lighter, friction, etc. are just one part of a much larger equation. What we seemed to get hooked on all the time is the ignition method (which is understandable as it is the cool part).

Besides the initial heat source, there is also fuel, oxygen, and it all has to sustain combustion.

So... I just wanted to add why we all worry about how we get a flame or coal, it doesn't matter if you don't know what to do with it.

And to your point, I believe it is far more important to know how to use a ferro/magnesium, strike a match correctly, use a fresnel lens, make a natural tinder bundle, fire lay, etc. than it is to know how to do friction fire. Hence, my 1k post contest!

However, one of things that we all here seem to be striving for here is self reliance, and for some, friction fire is a step in that direction as it is empowering. So in that sense it is a natural progression in ones outdoor skills ~ I just hope it is not one at the cost of the 2/3rds of the equation. Nor should it be a primary or back-up source of ignition, you can't beat the reliability of modern methods.

Peace, Chris
 
Last class I taught on the bow&drill, Average time to find materials and prep for bow&drill, 30 Minutes.
Average time to flame once materials were prepared, 3.5 minuets.
These were first timers, average age 14

If your sweating your doing it wrong.
I have known some who with a preprepared fire kit had flame in 12 seconds. That was a contest at a black-powder shoot.
 
Chris/Quiet Bear, you added some very good comments with which I completely agree.

Ice lens, is a waste of time IME & O, try it before you post it.

BMA, this thread/post was not directed at your comments in the other thread, no need to defend. But if you must I counter, that finding the right materials to make a Fire Bow set is not as easy as you make it sound. I doubt without pointing out which specific woods to select any participant, let alone a 14yr old is going to be making fire with a fire bow. Then extrapolate that into all the different regions and terrains of the USA alone, and you have a major issue on your hands relying on the Fire Bow method.

No, 'if your sweating your doing it wrong is BS' pure bunk, depending on the climatic conditions such as high humidity, one can easily work up a sweat doing the fire bow, which could lead to hypothermia.

I'm not interested in a pissing contest with you because I graduated from school 35 years ago. You think what you want, I know what I have found to be fact with regards to my experiences.
 
I only practice with Primitive Techniques when I have the time to play around. I choose not to rely upon them in the field. Your oinion differs because you teach Primitive, that's fine, just don't impose it on me. My firesteel will light in 6 seconds regardless of conditions, I rest my case.
 
Thirty minutes is an eternity if everything goes wrong and you're cold, that's the point. If you're in a survival situation, it's because several things went wrong. Added to the points offered up by 1T, every area of the country is different and you might not be able to obtain the materials in a short amount of time, etc., etc., etc. The other thread got pumped and dumped with this stuff. The entire "slave to technology" argument is like this extremely bizarre, almost Neo-Luddite outlook on survival methods. That other thread suffered the pump and dump because things were said that couldn't be defended...
 
What is the point of any pissing match on here? Live and let live. The end result is FIRE, to be stuck on squabbling over process driven vs results driven is silly.
 
I don't think it's silly at all. Is this a discussion forum or a anyone can say anything forum and if you have a point of disagreement you don't discuss it? I once read somewhere, someone said, "It's better to be kind than right" or "correct." I think that's a load.
 
I agree Don & RockyWolf, when you NEED fire is no time to be trying to look around for the items you need. Granted one can carry a firebow kit as easily as a flint and steel, or a firesteel. The progression up to a firesteel is the modernization of the process of the discovery of how to produce fire IMO. Why not use the simplest and quickest method, the firesteel, to get what you need? Take into account a broken hand, one can deduce you then have a lighter, matches, and a firesteel that could concievably work to ignite a fire. Place the firesteel under the toe of your foot and use your uninjured hand to strike it. Matches and lighter should be self explanatory to carry and use.

There's family camping, Bushcraft, and Primitive; pick which ever you prefer to enjoy and get out and enjoy it! No matter how you create your fire it's always satisfying.
 
I titled this thread, Fire by friction COMMENTS; because I wanted to post my findings from field experiences and trial and errors(lots of errors!) in making fire by various ways. My conclusion is that there are a few schools of thought and practice with regard to making fire. Primitive, Bushcraft, family camping; all arrive at the same conclusion, fire, by whatever means they find easier or more satisfying. It's a free Country practice whatever style you enjoy.
 
Every method has its place and use.

I prefer a ferro rod and don't leave home with out one, even if only going to the market.

However; since learning some primitive firemaking tecniques such as bowdrill and flint and steel,(all I got so far:o) my confidence has grown leaps and bounds while out in the woods. It took me less than a minute at the WLC to get a coal since the material I was using was properly prep'd and I had a great instructor, but when I have gotten my own material I sometimes have failed or sometimes it's taken me several attempts to get a coal. (thats why I keep practicing) Yes it's not easy, no it is far from the best way, but in some circumstance it may be the only way. So knowing and understanding how it works is a very valuable skill IMO.
 
something I carry everyday no matter where I go,light and easy to tote around...
SAK "Hiker" and Sparky....
IMG_1694.jpg

Every fire method has good points and bad points, Fire by friction is something you should know but it is ony good if weather is favorable and your skill set(in my case)... So each their own on there fire method....I would not venture out into the great outdoors relying on a Bic only... I carry one and love it but I love the Ferro rod as well & can make fire with the Rod...I am working on friction fire now... knowledge is power,LOL :D what is it going to hurt to know & learn all method of fire making !
 
I don't think it's silly at all. Is this a discussion forum or a anyone can say anything forum and if you have a point of disagreement you don't discuss it? I once read somewhere, someone said, "It's better to be kind than right" or "correct." I think that's a load.

You missed the point. Discussion leads to debate which hopefully leads to improvement, i.e. knowledge gained by those involved. The "I'm firmly in my camp" people won't be swayed, so the debate turns into argument and is no longer productive. Lots of ways to get to a solution. My own views are much like yours, and I do find the debate interesting-I guess I can always stop reading if it gets pissy-which has happened regarding this topic a few times.

Flame on if needed. :D
 
I don't know why I have PYO so much about this.

I have never been a proponent of purely primitive skills.

I don't teach primitive skills, I teach survival skills. I taught them in the Marine corps. I taught them to Scouts, and I teach to a select few who seek me out.

I have never recommended relying solely on fire by friction. In fact I always recommend carrying several methods of fire starting.

I do recommend Learning the skill of fire by friction and learning it throughly. If that skill is learned, It teaches a much more efficient way of laying a fire.

There is a hugh difference if laying a fire bed for a single match, and laying a fire bed to catch a tiny ember the size of a poppy seed.

I have had the opportunity while serving my country to try my skills out in 13 different countries and in all climactic zones.

Fire by friction Has saved my life....Its a long story and it happened almost 40 years ago.

Again I say this, It is a skill, when learned all other fire making skills fall right in line. I never promoted fire by friction as THE way to make a fire. I promote fire by friction as the way to learn about fire making.

Did I mention that the Bow&drill method has saved my life.

I apologies for ever using the term "slave to technology" Apparently that was really offensive to some one, and caused them to completely lose the point that is just a skill. Another tool to add to your mental tool box.
 
I don't teach primitive skills, I teach survival skills. I taught them in the Marine corps. I taught them to Scouts, and I teach to a select few who seek me out.

OK

I have never recommended relying solely on fire by friction. In fact I always recommend carrying several methods of fire starting.

I do recommend Learning the skill of fire by friction and learning it throughly. If that skill is learned, It teaches a much more efficient way of laying a fire.

There is a hugh difference if laying a fire bed for a single match, and laying a fire bed to catch a tiny ember the size of a poppy seed.

How does a tinder nest for a fire bow and drill differ from a tinder nest one would put together for a chert and steel set up or a ferrocerium rod or a magnifying lens or any other method?

I have had the opportunity while serving my country to try my skills out in 13 different countries and in all climactic zones.

That's very interesting.

Fire by friction Has saved my life....Its a long story and it happened almost 40 years ago.

We're glad you're here.

Did I mention that the Bow&drill method has saved my life.

Uh...yeah, I think so...once or twice. :D

I apologies for ever using the term "slave to technology" Apparently that was really offensive to some one, and caused them to completely lose the point that is just a skill. Another tool to add to your mental tool box.

You know Mike, I'm not the one with my nose out of joint about this. I told you in the other thread I'm not "offended" by your remarks. I said I always enjoyed your posts but I simply disagreed with you. And I have been rather polite to you and apologized in the other thread to you, as well as used your name and not referred to you as "some one." Everyone can look in the other thread and see that. You're just baiting at this point and you have a drill from a fire bow and drill set someplace rather unpleasant and apparently it's crossways and that's not really my problem man - that's your problem.
 
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