Firebow Studies & Experiments

[Mistwalker]

***Note:*** The fire bow is an area of serious study for me at the moment. This thread will build over time as I come up with new ideas and new experiments to try. So, there will be picture posts, then discussions, more picture posts, more discussions...so on and so forth for a little bit.



Since the fire bow has become an area of rather intense study lately I thought I'd make a good portable bow that I could take along with me that took up little room and was little trouble to carry. I wanted one I could carry like...

well,like this...

For the most part of making the bow and spindle and gathering the tinder the Soldier Knife got a good workout...man I love this thing. The bow is made from a Honeysuckle tree branch, and even the bark works well mixed with some Cedar bark in a tinder nest.

 

[Mistwalker]

Having been busy for a while, once I started whittling on the bow last night I just drifted off and sort of forgot about the camera and just relaxed for a while. I had been talking to my primitive skills mentor, Rick (Magnussen), about my experiences and results with the fire bow and he had made some suggestions. So making my first attempts at following his advice... When I got through whittling and fiddling it, the new experimental spindle, and the two stick fire board looked like this. The bearing block is made from a piece of Poplar 1x2 I robbed off an old desk. I used the RC-4 to whittle it into a more comfortable shape and to bore out the hole for the spindle. I really love this little knife too.

I only got these pics because a friend stopped by while I was finishing the spindle and asked what I was up to. One thing led to another and he ended up getting a fire starting lesson, hence the house shoes. The deal was that he had to take pics for me to study.




The experimental spindle was a bit interesting at first but worked as advertised.

I've still yet to get two coals with the two stick method. I may be putting a lean on the spindle in the final spins or something I don't know, but all three times it has been the side furthest away from me that coaled.

Even still, it has so far always been enough to get the fire started.

Sorry the pics aren't so great...Rick (not Magnussen) sometimes got caught up watching and forgot to push the button. But...now that he knows what to expect and us having talked about it in depth and all I think he'll do better on the next one.

 

[theamazingdrew]

great pics mistwalker!!!
hows the canvas micarta on the rc-4? i have been thinking of getting another rc-4

 

[Mistwalker]

great pics mistwalker!!!
hows the canvas micarta on the rc-4? i have been thinking of getting another rc-4

Thanks Drew,

I like the canvas just fine, I like the handle just fine...I am thinking about putting thicker scales on it but only because I'm thinking about putting a spindle divot in it if I don't get an RC-5.

 

[ratamahatta]

great job buddy, how long did it take you to get an ember??????

 

[tonym]

Congratulations Mist!!!

Feels good, don't it?

 

[Joezilla]

That spindle is pretty neat. Try tapering it on the next one, that way you won't reach the junction and can just whittle down some more

 

[Mistwalker]

great job buddy, how long did it take you to get an ember??????

Well, I wasn't timing but it does seem to take me a bit longer to get a coal from the two-stick than with the flat hearth maybe about five or minutes with the two stick vs three or four with the flat hearth.

Congratulations Mist!!!

Feels good, don't it?

Thanks Tony! Yeah, coal and fire using the flat hearth is awesome but doing the two stick is a hi all it's own. The next experiment is a bit different

.

 

[Mistwalker]

That spindle is pretty neat. Try tapering it on the next one, that way you won't reach the junction and can just whittle down some more

Thanks, yeah, I've been experimenting with angles on the spindles, spindle diameters, notch widths, and different hearth types, sizes, and thicknesses.

 

[TheGame]

I've always been fascinated by the fire by firebow. It is one of the best skills to have, in my opinion. Opens a whole new world of fire starting possibilities.

:thumbup:

 

[Oregon Knife Guy]

I have been playing around a little with the firebow and still have no luck with it. The one time I actually got a coal, I forgot to put a leaf or bark under to catch it...Oops.
What woods from the list below would you recommend, or combinations of?
Fir, Oak, Willow, occasional apple, and Maple

 

[canadiantrailman]

registered user

 

[Mistwalker]

I've always been fascinated by the fire by firebow. It is one of the best skills to have, in my opinion. Opens a whole new world of fire starting possibilities.

:thumbup:

It definitely give you more options that's for sure.

I have been playing around a little with the firebow and still have no luck with it. The one time I actually got a coal, I forgot to put a leaf or bark under to catch it...Oops.
What woods from the list below would you recommend, or combinations of?
Fir, Oak, Willow, occasional apple, and Maple

I'm far from an expert at this man, I've only been doing this for a little while now. I started with a red Cedar flat hearth board and since that worked I'm still doing studies with it. I wanted to learn a little more before branching off into other woods. Besides Cedar also provides me with tinder and we have LOTs of Cedar trees in this area. I think after today I am going to try some other woods but I'll likely be starting with Sycamore since I have that handy.

Nice job, not everyone can do this from scratch. I would have been tempted to pull out my cotton balls with petroleum jelly and a flint.

Thanks man, it wasn't my first go at it, I've been studying it for a while now. For me the flat hearth is soooo much easier.




After recent experiments I had another idea I wanted to try. I also played around with the Shrike a little more trying it out on things it was never intended for.

Then I got the RC-4 out for some cutting and whittling and whittled out the spindle form one of the split pieces.

I split the flat plank I made in half and then cut some bevels into the split sides.

put back together it looked like this.

 

[Mistwalker]

Then I used the serrated edge of the RC-4 to cut four notches in the outside edges of the split board, two on each side, for the string I am going to tie it together with.

Like I said it is still an ongoing experiment with an idea. I had to play with the bevels a bit, and didn't get a coal with the first socket, but finally managed to with the second one.

Not the greatest coal, but a coal none the less. So it is encouraging results from today's experiments, I'll play with it more later, and maybe I'll figure out why I'm only getting a coal on one side...as always the side away from me.



.

 

[efahl]

maybe I'll figure out why I'm only getting a coal on one side...as always the side away from me.

I'll wild-ass guess that maybe when you pull the bow back your weight shifts off the spindle a bit?

 

[Mistwalker]

I'll wild-ass guess that maybe when you pull the bow back your weight shifts off the spindle a bit?

I think I need to do a video and study what I'm doing from an objective point of view. Looking at that one picture it looks like I'm over compensating or pushing the spindle too far over or something...the spindle seems to be leaning to the side that coaled and that was taken on the last spins.

 

[sicily02]

Very Cool Brian, The pics and comentary was awesome as always.

Bryan

 

[Mistwalker]

Very Cool Brian, The pics and comentary was awesome as always.

Bryan

Thanks bro, glad you liked it! It's still a study in progress...more to go.

 

[VaughnT]

I've done the primitive skills thing for awhile and am curious why you're doing the two-notch thing? I've made a ton of bow-drill fires and never needed two notches. From a strictly physics standpoint, you're splitting your energy into two piles and that means it's going to take twice as long to bring either pile to critical temperature where the dust ignites into a coal. What's the gain in that?

Did I read you're earlier post right and it took you Five (5) minutes of steady pumping to reach ignition?

What type of fluff are you using in the center of your bird's nest? Cattail? Fine cedar? Toilet paper?

Are you lubricating the top of your spindle to decrease friction? Is the top as smooth as you can whittle it to decrease friction prior to lubrication? Is your handpiece a hardwood or softwood?

As for suitable materials, I've been a super duper happy fan of Yucca flower shaft for my drills. It's already round-ish and stiffer than cattail. Put it in a cheater drill and it's literally almost as fast as a Bic lighter. Once had a handicapped 10yr old get a coal in under a minute on his second go! One note: you can find yucca all over because it's used as an ornamental landscaping plant, but you cannot dry that shaft on your own. I don't know why, and I've tried every technique under the sun. Wait until the shaft dies on the plant and then cut it free. Excellent stuff and you can't get enough of how easy it is to work with.

Oregon, Of the woods you listed,

Fir, Oak, Willow, occasional apple, and Maple

, none are ideal, in my opinion. Fir is okay, but I've always had issues with it. Willow is the same. Both work, and I've seen guys use them with great success, but I think they are tempermental.

For my money, I really really really recommend you start with the yucca flower shaft and a hearth of cedar or cottonwood. Remember, while your hearth material is contributing to the dust pile, it's the drill rod that is the main component and should be slightly softer than the hearth. The hand piece should be a hardwood that does not drill through easily. Instead, it will glaze over under the heat/pressure and form an almost glass-like surface with almost no friction. This is especially notable when you're using the same kit time after time.

 

[Mistwalker]

I've done the primitive skills thing for awhile and am curious why you're doing the two-notch thing? I've made a ton of bow-drill fires and never needed two notches. From a strictly physics standpoint, you're splitting your energy into two piles and that means it's going to take twice as long to bring either pile to critical temperature where the dust ignites into a coal. What's the gain in that?

Did I read you're earlier post right and it took you Five (5) minutes of steady pumping to reach ignition?

What type of fluff are you using in the center of your bird's nest? Cattail? Fine cedar? Toilet paper?

Are you lubricating the top of your spindle to decrease friction? Is the top as smooth as you can whittle it to decrease friction prior to lubrication? Is your handpiece a hardwood or softwood?

Well, first...I definitely like the flat hearth better, at least the Cedar ones I have, it's much quicker easier for me to get a coal and fire. However the benefit I see in this idea is that the coal(s) take place on top of the board and therefore requires no "leaf" and can, in theory at least (not yet tried), be done on wet or snowy ground. That being said you did just give me a good idea for another experiment, so thanks for that!

I didn't time myself, but it seemed like five minutes...time is a irrelevant when focused on a specific task so may have been more or may have been less. I know it only seems like a minute or two with the flat hearth and seems at least twice that long with the two stick.

No, no lubrication yet...keep forgetting. So far the bearing blocks I've tried have been micarta and a piece of poplar. I have some black walnut that has been drying for a while that I want to make one from, but mainly I have just been studying the characteristics of the materials and methods learning what I can.

Thanks a lot for your input, it is much appreciated.