Fires in the heavy rain?

Codger_64

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Codger, out of curiosity how do you get your fires going in the heavy rain?

Heavy rain can sometimes defeat even the best attempts at firebuilding. It has happened to me on more than one occasion.

Most obviously, you have to get to dry shelter for yourself and your fire. Trying to build a fire in a downpour is an exercise in futility. Shelter may be a beached, overturned canoe, a large rootball of a blowdown tree, a shelter cave, or lee of a tall bluff, in a pinch, a poncho draped over a bush. I've sheltered against a trunk under a thick cedar whose many low hanging branches acted like a thatched roof, directing all but occasional drips out to the tree's "drip-line".

Finding dry wood to burn can be a chore, depending on your environment, and how long it has been raining. Often, limbs that are still attached to the tree but dead will remain dry just under the bark for some time. Driftwood left well above the waterline by previous flooding may be pretty dry too.

Using an accelerant is also obvious, if you have it available. Naturally occuring accelerants include evergreen resins (rosin), fatwood (resinous wood), and flammable fine duff like rat's or birds nests. Manmade accelerants include petroleum jelly, wax, tar, duct tape adhesive, stove fuel, plastic bags, or specifically designed solid fuels such as MRE heater tabs, and my favorite, trioxane bars. Given urgency, and defeated efforts at fuel gathering, the trioxane bars alone can give off a surprising amount of heat. I've used them in rescuing stage 1 hypothermic canoists.

Last resort, but one I have been forced to use myself, it stoking an internal fire.

Codger
 
Many times, I have started fires in wet swamp
areas. Once the fire is going, damp or wet wood
can be put next to the fire and it will dry out.
A gentle rain will not prevent or put the fire out.

Now let me qualify and critique my above statements.
The "I" was often two or three of us who were all
working on gathering/firebuilding, at first.
I never built a fire in a downpour, just gentle rain.

Hard Rain.

Codger, I agree that a fire needs a shelter, as does
fire wood. My fires often evolved toward this as I
piled up wood above fire in a tipi style.

One of the old woods books showed a treated canvas
tarp suspended above the fire. Today, most canvas is
treated with fire-retardent. There may be an additional
level of treatment that is available. They showed 4 ropes
for suspension. Problems are 1) trees for tie-offs are seldom
where you want 2)a flat tarp will collect huge amounts of
water in the middle.
I would pre-tie 2 ropes at each corner and 1,2, or 3 along
the peak. You can reinforce the tarp with leather or canvas
scraps and at the same time sew-in a permanent rope tie.
A few extra ropes can be kept attached to any of the regular
ropes with a sheep-shank knot. These are for extra length;
and can be tied to any other rope.

I can over-think and over-engineer anything.

fnc
 
Codger, stoking internal fires are great, but you need an accelerant, a little bit of which I always carry along.

Once up in Maine, in a steady drizzle, my wife and I started a fire using white paper birch bark. The interior of the log was rotted, but the bark has so much rezin in it...even though it was wet, got it going with a zippo, then just added snap-offs from the trees around us. Cooked breakfast.
 
One thing a lot of people do not know about is "miners carbide". If you just put a few rocks of it in a water filled pipe cover it will give of acetalyne(sp?) gas that can be ignited by a spark. Once your tinder is started you should be able to keep some of your wood dry enough to keep the fire going.

I get a lot of funny looks when I tell people that I can start a fire in water! :rolleyes:

Ciao 4 now
Ron
:cool:
 
There was a web article awhile back where the author promote the need to be able to start a fire in the rain, you had to pay to get his solution. I was always curious if his answer would be "Eliminate the rain." As with any complex problem, just reduce it to a simpler problem you have already solved.

-Cliff
 
Here in Central Brazil we have a wicked rainy season. I have expereinced literally 40 days and nights of near constant downpour. Even when it stops the sun doesn't come out. Wood gets soaked to the core.

Under such conditions it helps immensely to be able to identify your wood types. I find that very few species will not be soaked to the core and starting fire with those woods is a lesson in futility. You will only get such local knowledge by experience.

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In central Brazil Candeia wood is the only readily available wood that stays dry during rainy season. A single piece about 50 cm long will provide all the tinder and kindling necessary to start a fire.

In a hard rain it makes little sense to even start a fire if it isn't sheltered in some way. It can be done and it can be kept burning, it won't do you much good in terms of drying you out because... you're unshletered in a heavy rain.:eek: The best you can hope for is to have one side steaming you like a fish and the other side taking a bath.

You have to focus on your site selection and make use of whatever natural shelter you can find. In the event that you can't find a shelter you have to build one for you and the fire if you want to get even somewhat dry.

In my area here we have all sorts of big rocks littering the landscape, lots of ravines and cliffs. It isn't hard to find a location that is somewhat sheltered that can be improved upon.

Pay attention to your prevailing wind and try to site your fire so that you can get between the shelter and the fire with the smoke moving away from the shelter. It isn't always possible, sometimes the fire has to be right up against the rocks/cliff, in which case the shelter itself will act as a reflector.

A hot fire will steam dry your clothes in about an hour.

rcmacsecandonacavernaid5.jpg
Location, Location, Location... Mac
 
Codger , plastic grocery bags are a good accelerant ? Do you just partially wad them up like newspaper or is it better to shred them a little ? They must make a pretty pungent smoke ?

I do think a fire in a rainy setting is a good idea . As long as it can be kept going without undue smoke or takes your time away from another task such as building a shelter . It might not dry your clothes . I think a percolator shoved up close or a covered pot of simply prepared food does wonders for damp spirits . I find the fire itself to be uplifting .

In truth I have only made a few fires outside a campground setting . Obviously there is a limit to everything and my setting does not fall within the limits put forth .
 
I do not baton wood, I have gotten into pretty lively debates about it but have never seen a need to do it even in very wet weather. When building fires in very wet weather I look for the very small dry twigs that grow close to the trunk on evergreens they are nearly always dry enough to ignite, also shredded cedar bark and birch bark are inflammable in wet conditions. I will look for standing dead trees during wet weather as opposed to wood laying on the ground and can very usually find dry enough wood to start a fire, especially wittling a few fuzz sticks. Fatwood stumps are pretty abundant where I live and I am always on the lookout for them, pieces of fatwood or shavings will always burn no matter how wet, stay burning for good while and give off a hot flame.

I also carry cotton balls soaked in vaseline, and almost always have my trangia mini in my day pack with a small listerine bottle of alcohol, I am addicted to tea :( . If I can find an old soda can cut the bottom out making a small cup, pour a bit of my alcohol in the cup it will burn long enough to get a serious blaze going. Chris
 
Chris , addicted to tea? Can there be such a thing ? I guess I spread out my addictions . I like my cuppa coffee in the morning and I will share the occasional cuppa tea with friends . I will also imbibe herbal teas as a way of not always consuming caffeine .

Mint tea is my favourite with a blueberry or one called :Blue Eyes : not far behind . I don,t get Blue Eyes all that much as it is sweetened . There seems to be a lot of fruit and a few spices in there . Just the thing in front of a roaring fire and a good read . I still haven't got my fire to roar yet . L:O:L
 
It hasn't been said yet but a candle is great for starting fire in difficult conditions. Plus it has many additionnal uses like heating a shelter or light. the only problem is during summer candle might melt, but having a fire running is less critical during that season.
 
Chris , addicted to tea? Can there be such a thing ? I guess I spread out my addictions . I like my cuppa coffee in the morning and I will share the occasional cuppa tea with friends . I will also imbibe herbal teas as a way of not always consuming caffeine .

Mint tea is my favourite with a blueberry or one called :Blue Eyes : not far behind . I don,t get Blue Eyes all that much as it is sweetened . There seems to be a lot of fruit and a few spices in there . Just the thing in front of a roaring fire and a good read . I still haven't got my fire to roar yet . L:O:L

Kevin,
I have spent too much time over seas, the tea I make does not resemble the tea you get in the US, I learned to make it from some nice British and Indian fellows in SWA. My tea is dark, strong, and sweet but I will drink it straight if sweetener is not available. It is also loose tea not those old, moldy, tasteless tea bags :barf:
I am not to big on the flavored teas but I have had some that I like. I take a lot of flak from my coffee drinking buddies but on a chilly morning I don't have many refuse a cup.:D
 
One of my greatest pleasures of life has been solo wilderness tripping in my canoe. The Buffalo National River in Northwest Arkansas has been my prefered spot for many, many years. At times in late spring, it can resemble a water ride at an amusement park, canoes full of kids and adults stretching as far in front and behind as the eye can take in, and the twisting, winding mountain river allows.

America's First National River

The Buffalo National River flows free over swift running rapids and quiet pools for its 135-mile length. One of the few remaining rivers in the lower 48 states without dams, the Buffalo cuts its way through massive limestone bluffs traveling eastward through the Arkansas Ozarks and into the White River. Explore the river by canoe or take the back roads into the pioneer history of the Buffalo River region or enjoy a hike in one of the three designated wilderness areas.

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This 135 mile length does not include the headwaters, code named by us early enthusiasts "The Hailstone" river to keep outclassed recreational canoists away. It adds another 13 1/2 miles of hairy class II-III whitewater as it drops on an average gradient of 33 fpm with a 55 fpm maximum drop rate. Narrow slot runs around frequent large boulders, through a deep gorge canyon.

The Buffalo rises in the Boston Mountains of the Ozark Mountain range, and was declared a protected wild river, free of dams and impoundments in the early 1970's. Senic setbacks preclude any development within sight of the river for most of it's length. A few highway bridges, and unimproved fords are the only signs of civilization one sees from the river.

My favorite time of year for my fourteen day excursions in in late December to mid January. I own the river then, and often complete my trip without seeing another living soul.

Patience, I'm getting there!!

Back in the early 1980's, on one such trip I ran into some difficulty on my last day before takeout at the abandoned mining town of Rush.

Early morning began as usual, with a quick breakfast and cowboy coffee, tent packed and gear loaded while the coffee brewed. By the time the fire was buried and cook kit packed, it was light enough to see almost across the river. The river had frozen over in the night, at least in the pool I had camped by. I recorded below zero temps on my tent thermometer, so it was not unexpected. I launched the 17' canoe backwards, actually with myself seated in the bow seat, but facing the bow instead of toward the stern as I usually do when soloing the big tandem. I used a rocking motion to break the ice in front of the boat, leaving a "snail trail" behind me of flowing water and crushed ice. I knew from experience that if I piloted my canoe in the normal fashion, it would slide the bow up on the ice sheet and I would either be stuck, or I would have to "go with the flow", riding the ice sheet into the rapids with no control over my course or destiny.

As the morning progressed, the ice broke up from the warmer river water flowing below, and my progress improved. I still had to wait out the ice sheets preceeding me into the rapids between pools, but the river was once more navigable. Late morning a light skiff of snow began to fall. Soon the trees, rocks and bluffs took on a winter-wonderland look.

By noon, the light snowfall had become a blizzard of half-dollar sized flakes, dissapearing when they hit the water, except for a thin slush that formed on the surface. The problem began when the snow fell in the canoe, and immediately melted, as it did on my clothes. By then I was "power-stroking" the canoe, steam rising from my clothing. I got soaked. And before I realized it, started stage one hypothermia as the water evaporated. I noticed it when I couldn't switch paddle strokes because my fingers refused to respond. And my thinking became fuzzy.

When it dawned on me I had a problem, I made for the nearest blank, retrieved my rainfly, and set about trying to build a fire. DId I mention that my hands didn't work? Consider that when you are selecting your emergency firemaking apparatus. Before I could gather materials for a fire and light them, the tremors started. I could not make sense of the sticks and twigs, could not light them. I finally lit a trioxane bar. Two in fact. And thawed my hands while holding a sierra cup of water over the small blaze.

I had thought to make coffee, but the tremors got worse, and I was sloshing luke warm water out of the cup onto my hands. Decision time...stay and get worse, or get back in the boat and power stroke until I reached the takeout, a "do-or-die" dash. The snow made up my mind for me. It was coming down so thick I couldn't see the far end of my red canoe, twenty feet away. I dumped a box of cherry jello in the lukewarm water and downed it, wadded my shelter into the boat, and shoved off.

I don't remember how long it took me to reach Rush, but I quickly set my shelter, stripped, toweled dry, put on dry clothes, and built a nice cheery fire in the lee of a thick cedar, using fat cedarwood to get it going with a trioxane booster, added "dry" driftwood once it was going.

My tent I pitched beneath the cedar, hoping to keep the snow weight off of it. My shuttle never did come. I had prearranged with a guide service for their truck to pick me up at Rush Landing. Rush is in a very narrow, steep valley leading down to the river, and of course it was blocked by snow. I awoke the next morning with my tent almost in my face. The tree had blocked the snow alright, but the snow was so heavy, I was in a cedar lined snow cave.

The calvary...er...the National Forrest Service Ranger's truck arrived just as I had repacked my duffle. Snowtires, 4wd, chains, and some tricky driving got me out of there.

Codger
 
Dang codger that could be a true life short story .
What temp did you have in your last nights tent ?

One thing held true in this , There is always room for jello . L:O:L

Maybe I missed it . Did you answer how best to use plastic grocery bags to light a fire ?
 
Codger,

Great story and pics with a great moral, it is really good to know how to build a fire with 2 sticks and a string but when it is root hog or die, a bic and a pint of gasoline is priceless, or trioxane bars. ;)

I used to use trioxane and the little esbit tabs and still do ocasionally but have switched over to a small bottle of grain alcohol (Everclear) that I use in a little stove. I also usually have a bit of tang or country time lemonade powder too, helps warm from the inside once camp is made and my belly is full. :D
 
Kevin said:
Dang codger that could be a true life short story .
What temp did you have in your last nights tent ?
One thing held true in this , There is always room for jello . L:O:L
Maybe I missed it . Did you answer how best to use plastic grocery bags to light a fire ?

It is a true life short story. Just one of my excursions on that river. I made two to three a year for many years. The last night's temps were in the low teens. That was with my breath warming the tent through the wolf fur ruff on my arctic survival bag. I had to unzip it near the foot because it got too hot. I use an antique goose down lightweight "Stag Bag" inside it (circa 1972). Jello is good quick energy, even in lukewarm syrup form. The body readily absorbs it and puts it to work. If I had made coffee, the caffine would have dialated my blood vessels and made things worse, even after the benifit of the initial warming. I did that on autopilot, I was beyond making concious logical decisions. Knot or braid the plastic bags to compact it so it will burn better. Don't breathe the fumes, and don't get the burning plastic on you. Like thick napalm, it will burn to the bone.

Codger,

Great story and pics with a great moral, it is really good to know how to build a fire with 2 sticks and a string but when it is root hog or die, a bic and a pint of gasoline is priceless, or trioxane bars. ;)

I used to use trioxane and the little esbit tabs and still do ocasionally but have switched over to a small bottle of grain alcohol (Everclear) that I use in a little stove. I also usually have a bit of tang or country time lemonade powder too, helps warm from the inside once camp is made and my belly is full. :D

If I had dumped and lost my kit before the takeout, I would have had to use two sticks. Or died. By then, I was near the abandoned mines and could have sheltered there and found enough dry materials to make a fire inside. Luckily, I didn't need to.

Codger
 
Codger,
When I canoe I worry about dumping and losing my kit, I carry on my person a lighter in a ziplock with tender. Hypothermia can get you at much warmer temps than you had on your trip.

On opening day of trout season 26 years ago, I was 13, with snow spitting, I slipped and fell in the river and I really think my grandfather saved my life with a quickly built fire of mountain laurel and a cup of hot chocolate made in a discarded bean can. It is truly amazing how quickly a situation can go from uncomfortable to dangerous in 0 seconds flat. Once again thanks for sharing your story, canoeing is one of my passions and brings a new set of situations to deal with and repare for. Chris
 
codger don,t you dis my caffeine , L:O:L
Is that blood vessel dilation only of import in extreme cases ?

I question peoples decision to have a flint/steel and tinder as their main fire starting equipment . I think it is good to be proficient with it . I have had hands cold enough to have trouble lighting matches . I could not imagine having to strike a flint and steel in a serious emergency .
 
I love my caffine too. But when you are cold, really cold, other warm liquids are better. Your body is like an automated factory that prioritizes it's functions. When your core temerature drops, it restricts blood flow to the limbs to keep from cooling the blood. Next to go is the digestive system and kidneys, then last, the brain. When you use caffine in this situation (and tobacco to an extent), you expand the blood vessles and actually loose more heat than you gain. Jello and beef bullion are two of the items I keep in my thwart bag, and have used them several times in whitewater rescue where I was trying to raise a person's core temp.

Yes, I agree to carry several means of starting fire, particularly when the weather can go to extremes, and when traveling on water. A ziploc is poor protection for a sammich, much less a lighter. And yes to the warmer weather hypothermia. It is sneakier then, but can be just as deadly. My most harrowing rescues have been in the spring when air temps are in the 50's-60's. People are lulled by the sunshine and blue skies. Know what happens with five minutes immersion in 50 degree water, then five in a slight 60 degree breeze on shore?

This trip is an illustration of how a person gains experience and knowledge, and led me to improve my skills and preparedness. It has not happened since, and won't. You could make a long list of the mistakes I made. And the things I did right.
 
A ziploc is poor protection for a sammich, much less a lighter.

Depends on the ziplock and the lighter, and I should have specified. I carry a mini bic in a carrier with a spring flip top lid that provides some protection to the lighter but is not water proof. A plastic snuff box full of vaseline cotton balls that is also not waterproof but almost. I carry all of this in a small heavy duty plastic bag with a ziplock type closure that I bought with a first aid kit. All of this fits in a pocket and is very waterproof, I also have fire making equipment in my daypack in a completely waterproof Army NBC decon kit box. I have been through several complete dunkings and it has not let me down yet, although there is a first time for everything.

Codger,
I defer to your knowledge and experience and read every post you write because I truly believe you know of what you speak. What is your failsafe waterproof fire making kit. Chris
 
Back to the humbler methods of fire starting, I like to carry a candle because I can get shavings of parifin off it, it does seem to help things get along faster.
 
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