Firestarter-magnesium vs. lighter

raylaconico

raylaconico

Joined
Jan 30, 2004
Messages
4,030
I'm curious about what if any are the advantages of those magnesium firestarters over a cheap lighter for starting fires. Those magnesium ones are pretty popular for survival gear around here and I've never used one so I was just wondering what makes them good. I like to camp and backpack and I always just have a lighter and maybe some matches in case I reach altitude where a lighter won't work. I've used the cheap lighters at 12,000 ft. to light a canister backpacking stove. The more expensive fancy butane lighters don't work that high and I've never tried a zippo.
 
you can get a mag bar as wet as you want and it'll still throw sparks. the mag bar is your tinder, where as a lighter needs separate material and it's not always easy to find something that will readily light. the mag bar won't suffer from corrosion as a lighter will.

i usually carry both, along with water proof matches.
 
Also, your lighter is susceptible to failure. The mag bar will not fail. The only thing that ever happened to me is the ferro rod (that is glued on) fell off. I wasn't able to find it. Which is why I always carry matches in a waterproof container :D
 
I don't spend time at 12,000 feet so I wouldn't know about Zippos at altitude but my Zippo has yet to fail me (when dry) and stays lit until the fire gets going. I carry mine in a waterproof container if I'm going to be getting wet after having gotten one too wet to work until it dried out.
 
I think zippos won't be effected by altitude because the fuel is not under pressure. It's the torch type lighters that won't work. They should make zippos that are water proof. A plastic sealed case instead of the metal ones.
 
Well, firstly, let me say that a piece of fatwood with a ferrocerium rod insert, or a ferro rod and some fatwood on the same piece of cord, or similar, is superior to the mag bars with the ferro rod inserts.

Anyway, as to the advantages of a mag bar type firestarter over a disposable lighter:

1) Waterproof – you could literally take one that has been submerged in water, and get it working within a second or two.

2) Fireproof – just to give you an idea of how fireproof a ferro rod is, I like to remove the plastic handles from my Swedish Firesteels by laying them on a trioxane bar, lighting it up, and melting the plastic handle off. No harm done.

3) Windproof – they will throw hot sparks just as well, no matter how windy it is.

4) Coldproof – they work just fine waaaay below zero degrees Fahrenheit.

5) Shockproof – you could throw it in the air, and it is likely not to break when it lands... but if it does, it does not impair function at all.

6) Longer lasting – you could get many (thousands) of fires going with it.

7) Hotter – the sparks, and the magnesium, are much hotter than a butane lighter's flame.

8) First-stage tinder is built-in.

However, be aware that they are not as easy to use, and may require learning how, and practicing, before you have to rely on it in an emergency.

Mike
 
Mag firestarters do have some weaknesses, although few.

A sharp knife is necessary to shave magnesium particles off the magnesium bar. A knife is also needed to strike against the attached flint rod to ignite the particles that have been shaved off the magnesium bar. Lighters don't require the use of a knife to start a fire.

The magnesium particles ignite best if collected in a small pile or clump. Under extremely windy conditions, this could be a real challenge, but to be fair, the same could be said for using a lighter, or matches.

I suggest carrying one of each, in addition to waterproof matches. :)
 
A piece of glass, a sharp edged rock or a can lid will also throw sparks nicely from a ferro rod. I find that a lot of effort is required to get a good amount of magnesium from a magnesium bar.
 
anybody ever used the file on a sak or leatherman on a mag bar?? I would bet that it makes a pile of shavings faster than a knife blade scraping....hmm...now that I thought about it, I need to go and try it.
 
Scraping magnesium dulls your knife. Magnesium flares up for about half a second. It can work, but why bother?

I carry a mini Bic lighter, a large ferro rod, a knife and 2 Coghlan's Emergency Tinder (in a small tin) in my pocket. The ferro rod will light thin wood shavings and other things.

Get a Strike Force for about $12 and pull the 2 1/4" x 1/2" ferro rod out and keep it with your pocket knife. Try the ferro rod on any tinder you can find. You will then see that magnesium is a poor tinder.

The back of a saw blade is the best scraper for the ferro rod. Do not use your knife blade, if you can avoid it. You could put a small piece of hacksaw blade in your wallet. I have a Leatherman with a saw that works great!
 
Evolute said:
Well, firstly, let me say that a piece of fatwood with a ferrocerium rod insert, or a ferro rod and some fatwood on the same piece of cord, or similar, is superior to the mag bars with the ferro rod inserts.

Anyway, as to the advantages of a mag bar type firestarter over a disposable lighter:

1) Waterproof – you could literally take one that has been submerged in water, and get it working within a second or two.

2) Fireproof – just to give you an idea of how fireproof a ferro rod is, I like to remove the plastic handles from my Swedish Firesteels by laying them on a trioxane bar, lighting it up, and melting the plastic handle off. No harm done.

3) Windproof – they will throw hot sparks just as well, no matter how windy it is.

4) Coldproof – they work just fine waaaay below zero degrees Fahrenheit.

5) Shockproof – you could throw it in the air, and it is likely not to break when it lands... but if it does, it does not impair function at all.

6) Longer lasting – you could get many (thousands) of fires going with it.

7) Hotter – the sparks, and the magnesium, are much hotter than a butane lighter's flame.

8) First-stage tinder is built-in.

However, be aware that they are not as easy to use, and may require learning how, and practicing, before you have to rely on it in an emergency.

Mike
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This summarize the case quite well but of course on the other hand, lighter is a lot easier to use under average conditions.

Craig_PHX said:
Scraping magnesium dulls your knife. ...
The back of a saw blade is the best scraper for the ferro rod. Do not use your knife blade, if you can avoid it. You could put a small piece of hacksaw blade in your wallet. I have a Leatherman with a saw that works great!
Click to expand...
Of course scraping magnesium (or using ferrocium) should be done with the spine of the knife. This one have to be squared.
Some knifes such as Fallkniven or Woodlore clones comes with a squared spine out of the box. Some have to be squared, using a file (Moras are among them).
About "third party" scrapers, the scraper that come with swedish "lightmyfire" rods is very effective. In the beginning I considered it to be useles or at least poor, but once you've caught the right way to use it it's actually excellent.
 
To light a fire using a cheap lighter, in my opinon, is easier than using magnesium firestarter because sometimes some tinders do not start burning easily. However, magnezium firestarter is much more reliable. Therefore I keep my magnezium firestarter as a backup to lighter.
 
A fellow forumite has suggested scraping magnesium on to the sticky side of a piece of duct tape. I tried that suggestion. It largely solves the wind problem and the whole thing burns - mag, tape and all.
 
What a great idea, thanks Thomas! I have had zippos fail above 11,000 ft, and don't know why. It's a good idea to have multiple sources, I usually carry a ferrocium rod (or two), lighters, fatwood, and good old cotton balls/vaseline. Road flares work even better, but that's cheating... :D
 
Craig_PHX said:
Scraping magnesium dulls your knife. Magnesium flares up for about half a second. It can work, but why bother?

I carry a mini Bic lighter, a large ferro rod, a knife and 2 Coghlan's Emergency Tinder (in a small tin) in my pocket. The ferro rod will light thin wood shavings and other things.

Get a Strike Force for about $12 and pull the 2 1/4" x 1/2" ferro rod out and keep it with your pocket knife. Try the ferro rod on any tinder you can find. You will then see that magnesium is a poor tinder.

The back of a saw blade is the best scraper for the ferro rod. Do not use your knife blade, if you can avoid it. You could put a small piece of hacksaw blade in your wallet. I have a Leatherman with a saw that works great!
Click to expand...


A ferro rod used on anything but dry perfect tinder is an exercise in frustration to no avail usually. This is why magnesium is almost a requirement for any kind of reliability. yes it does take some skill to do it right not easily accomplished by some but you are 100% certain of a flame when you know how. Not so with a ferro rod alone.
YOu cant guarantee perfect dry tinder or having it at all under all scenarios thus the mag flint combo is a very good thing to have as its durable.

Of course a lighter is the #1 way to start a fire but it is a mechanical device and subject to Mr Murphy.

As for a blade becoming dull shaving magnesium, well a decent steel will not be affected much if at all. Besides not being able to field sharpen your blades is a problem in of itself.

A hacksaw blade "tooth side" wears down a flint rod many times quicker than a blade edge but it does work well.

The big question here is WHEN in SAM hell are the dummies on the show survivor going to figure out the magnesium should be shaved?:rolleyes:

Skam
 
I have never seen a knife that was not dulled by magnesium. I use knifes with 154CM, Carbon V and 420. Maybe D2 doesn't get dull? :confused:

I'd rather have a piece of fatwood and a ferro rod than a Doan magnesium tool. :cool:

If you split your fire wood to get kindling and then make wood curls from the kindling it may be dry enough to use your ferro rod, if not I have some Coghlan's Emergency Tinder.

Roger, never use the "tooth side" of a hacksaw blade!

When I use a knife I often put my thumb on the spine of the knife. I don't want sharp edges on the spine. It may be good for ferro rod use but it is bad the rest of the time. I'd rather go ahead and use the part of the blade closest to the choil rather than have a sharp edged spine. :D
 
Craig_PHX said:
I have never seen a knife that was not dulled by magnesium. I use knifes with 154CM, Carbon V and 420. Maybe D2 doesn't get dull? :confused:

I'd rather have a piece of fatwood and a ferro rod than a Doan magnesium tool. :cool:

If you split your fire wood to get kindling and then make wood curls from the kindling it may be dry enough to use your ferro rod, if not I have some Coghlan's Emergency Tinder.
Click to expand...


If you are carefull and shave magnesium curls at a shallow angle less than 20 degrees it will barely dull a decent steel edge, it does take some practice.

That said if you stick to only using one small part of your blade for shaving you will only dull that portion if at all. As is known I carry a larger blade so have a lot of edge to work with not a big deal really. Resharpening by stropping is not a big deal either.

Fat wood is great stuff! but it is near impossible in my area to find so its not an option. Besides having your tinder as a separated piece means its prone to getting lost while a mag flint bar is all one unit. This setup does have its advantages.

I dont think anyone is touting the magnesium as your primary means of firestarting but it sure makes a durable and reliable backup not prone to failure if you practice it. It is part of the USAF pilots survival kit for a reason;) .

I also own a Strike force and carry vaseline cotton balls in its handle. this works well too but is a lot more bulky, a problem for some.

Nothing beats a Bic of course when its full and working.

Skam
 
I lit a cigarette with a Zippo on top of Mount Mornane in Jackson.
WARNING
Don't try nicotine that high up if youre a flatlander...
I thought I had accidentally grabbed my sons "lefties".. LOL
 
Craig_PHX said:
I have never seen a knife that was not dulled by magnesium. I use knifes with 154CM, Carbon V and 420. Maybe D2 doesn't get dull? :confused:
Click to expand...
Some of the mag bars NOT made by Doan (Cleveland, Ohio. None genuine wiothout the mark.) have aluminum included in the mix. They are harder on an edge.

I'd rather have a piece of fatwood and a ferro rod than a Doan magnesium tool. :cool:
Click to expand...
See, this shows that there's no accounting for tastes. :D

Roger, never use the "tooth side" of a hacksaw blade!
Click to expand...
And yet, that is suggested in some "survival" books. Definitely makes the ferro rod disappear faster.

When I use a knife I often put my thumb on the spine of the knife. I don't want sharp edges on the spine. It may be good for ferro rod use but it is bad the rest of the time.
Click to expand...
Sounds like rounding the part where the thumb rests could leave some sharp for the ferro rod -- and spare your cutting edge. Seems like the cutting edge closest to the hand is the part I use the most.
 
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