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Firestarter-magnesium vs. lighter
- Thread starter raylaconico
- Start date
Lots of good points, here. But a few misconceptions need to be corrected.
Skammer,
1) The ferro rod, by itself, can be gently shaved to make a built in tinder, similar to what you'd have with a mag block, except less work. So, if you have a ferro rod, you always have emergency tinder as well as hot sparks. It's not a great way to go, but it sucks no worse than the mag block.
2) The fatwood-can-be-separated-from-the-rod vs. the-mag-firestarter-is-all-one-piece argument fails because (a) it is easy to make fatwood and a ferrocerium rod into a single unit, and (b) similar to the mag block, you could even buy one of the many single-unit items, such as this:
http://www.the-firestarter.com/
m_calingo
You do not need a knife for a mag block, nor for a ferro rod. Knives are convenient and efficient for this purpose, but broken glass, the sharp edge of a rock... anything hard and fairly sharp will work.
Ravaillac,
I did note clearly that the magnesium firestarters are easier to use, already. But I wouldn't make too big of a deal of their difficulty. It's not as though they are that difficult to use, at least not if you've learned how and practiced.
Mike
Skammer,
1) The ferro rod, by itself, can be gently shaved to make a built in tinder, similar to what you'd have with a mag block, except less work. So, if you have a ferro rod, you always have emergency tinder as well as hot sparks. It's not a great way to go, but it sucks no worse than the mag block.
2) The fatwood-can-be-separated-from-the-rod vs. the-mag-firestarter-is-all-one-piece argument fails because (a) it is easy to make fatwood and a ferrocerium rod into a single unit, and (b) similar to the mag block, you could even buy one of the many single-unit items, such as this:
http://www.the-firestarter.com/
m_calingo
You do not need a knife for a mag block, nor for a ferro rod. Knives are convenient and efficient for this purpose, but broken glass, the sharp edge of a rock... anything hard and fairly sharp will work.
Ravaillac,
I did note clearly that the magnesium firestarters are easier to use, already. But I wouldn't make too big of a deal of their difficulty. It's not as though they are that difficult to use, at least not if you've learned how and practiced.
Mike
I thought a Magnesium bar was useless until I duct-taped a peice of carbon steel hack saw blade to it. The saw blade makes a pile of magnesium dust quick and then is used to make the spark with the non toothy edge.
As mentioned the tape can be used for a collector if it is impossible to get out of the wind.
The mag bar is now hung on a necklace with my Mora and I am pretty happy with it. Used with the inner scraped bark of cottonwood I have a flame going in no time.....of course natural tinder can be worked to light from a spark without the magnesium but 10 seconds of Magnesium scrapings saves me time and energy.
I use the Coghlans model which may be harder than the Doan....hell on knife blades but great with the hacksaw.
As mentioned the tape can be used for a collector if it is impossible to get out of the wind.
The mag bar is now hung on a necklace with my Mora and I am pretty happy with it. Used with the inner scraped bark of cottonwood I have a flame going in no time.....of course natural tinder can be worked to light from a spark without the magnesium but 10 seconds of Magnesium scrapings saves me time and energy.
I use the Coghlans model which may be harder than the Doan....hell on knife blades but great with the hacksaw.
Evolute said:
I will be testing theory #1 tomorrow as I am teaching a course and report back
As for #2 you can buy anything to light fires including a mini blow torch but that doesnt make it the easiest to get a hold of or more practical. The fact is fat wood is very hard to find in many places in North America and there is another 50 yr old proven method thats just as easy in the mag flint block.
My current magblock is 5 years old and has started umteen dozens of fires, fatwood dose a few but eventually crumbles and dries out in your pocket over time. Its also not as durable as its wood. No matter how you cut it the mag block is a better long term option for durability, number of uses, convenience of carry and long term storage.
Skam
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magneseum shavings are easily collected at home and used to make a start off point on an over saturated pj ball, wich will in theory burn longer than a lightly saturated ball. I put magneseum powder in a very small plastic bag with my sparklight tenders and they got a good little coating wich you can light without breaking them up any. I personaly like magneseum, and would definitly want it in an emergincy.
skammer said:
How long do you think you would have to keep a piece of fatwood in our pocket for it to crumble to pieces? I can't imagine living long enough for that to happen!
I kept a piece in my pocket for about 3 years before I switched to Coghlan's Emergency Tinder in a Altoids strips tin. I have a box of fatwood, from Safeway, that has been sitting in my hot Phoenix garage for about 7 years. I can't see where it degrades over time. It is sticky and burns with a nasty black smoke! It works great but Coghlan's Emergency Tinder works even better!
I have not tried magnesium scrapped on duct tape. That would solve some of it's problems.
We had a Boy Scout Troop meeting where the SPL brought a fire board with bow and a mag tool. I brought a ferro rod and a piece of fatwood I got from a stump in northern Arizona. The fire by friction and mag tool were a flop. Two broken shoe laces and several dull knives later there was no fire. The boys finally got a flame by scrapped a quarter size pile of fatwood and using a ferro rod. What is your skill level going to be when you are feeling desperate? Scrape the fatwood, scrape the ferro rod; fire for 30 seconds vs a flash for 2 seconds!
Magnesium can work but other things work so much better, I refuse to bother with it. I'll keep my mini Bic lighter, Coghlan's Emergency Tinder, and a fat ferro rod pulled out of a Strike Force! That is what works for me.
YMMV!
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Seems to me that everyone needs to find what works best for them.
If it comes to a battle of authority, it's no contest. The Doan Tool wins hands down.
If it comes to a battle of authority, it's no contest. The Doan Tool wins hands down.
You can buy a pound of magnesium shaving on ebay very cheaply. Vacuum seal in small packets and use with a ferro rod and tinder. The high temperatures produced by the magnesium will insure the tinder helps to start the larger pieces of wood very quickly.
tripletrash said:
Agreed re salting PJ balls with magnesium; they hold your magnesium shavings/dust in place really well, and boy do they ignite well
.My take on this debate? Mag/ferrocium blocks weigh next to nothing and are incredibly compact, and are a valuable addition to the well-prepared outdoorsperson's firestarting suite; mine includes a waterproof match safe with NATO matches and PJ/magnesium cotton ball, a Coghlan's ferrocium/mag block and Swedish firesteel, and usually a couple of mini-Bics.
Craig_PHX said:Magnesium can work but other things work so much better, I refuse to bother with it. I'll keep my mini Bic lighter, Coghlan's Emergency Tinder, and a fat ferro rod pulled out of a Strike Force! That is what works for me.
YMMV!
Fatwood is not all the same sorry to break it too you some do dry out and come apart with frequent carry thus I dont carry it.
I guess you learned it all in scout meetings. Lets hope the military learns from your scout meetings how its pilots are just carrying the wrong tool to start fires escape, evading and surviving in a crash.
what were they thinking
YOu should call them.
This thread was about magnesium last time I checked.
Skam
skammer said:I guess you learned it all in scout meetings. Lets hope the military learns from your scout meetings how its pilots are just carrying the wrong tool to start fires escape, evading and surviving in a crash.
what were they thinking
Skam
I think they have stopped thinking about magnesium and have switched to the Spark-Lite and Tinder Quik.
Its greatest feature is one-hand use and the treated cotton burns for about 5 minutes. If you use a ferro rod and treated cotton you can still do it one-handed. Stick your knife in the ground and scrap the ferro rod against the blade.
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skammer said:I guess you learned it all in scout meetings. Lets hope the military learns from your scout meetings how its pilots are just carrying the wrong tool to start fires escape, evading and surviving in a crash.
what were they thinking
YOu should call them.
Skam
Actually Skam, an Air Force Survival Instructor in Alaska told me at a demo that he and several of his fellow instructors did not care for the magnesium blocks at all. They were more in favor of PJd cotton balls and the PJ impregnated gauze pads that come in military first aid kits. He had a firesteel imbedded in a magnesium cylinder with an antler handle on it, pointing out that at the time it was hard to find the firesteels in any size by themselves so they carried the cylindrical combo. He stated that he would have preferred a nice, thick firesteel by itself. As I recall, this was early 90s. He felt the magnesium was more trouble than return - harder on the knife, it took a lot to get a usable pile of shavings, the shavings would blow away easy if a light gust came up, and the mag burned hot, but a little too quick for their tastes.
The guys who teach this stuff for the Air Force are the ones who turned me on to cotton balls, 0000 steel wool, and such things for tinder in preference to magnesium sticks. What were they thinking
Just so I have the basics covered and in case the mag is all there is, one of my firestarters is a Camper Model, Horseshoe Mountain Firestarter that has a long flint embedded in a tube of magnesium. This one appears to really be flint instead of firesteel. It works quite well if you get the striker at a 90 angle to the flint; you get a large shower of white spark. An insert even states, "It is a good idea to always carry a few cotton balls with you in the outdoors." This from the maker.
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PJ'd cotton balls or makeup pads are my current favorite. I'll have to try "salting" some with mag. What tarmix said. :thumbup:
The best deal on a ferro rod is the $12 Strike Force. The ferro rod is 1/2" thick and 2 1/4" long. It is only held in place by friction. I put mine in a vice and easily pulled off the plastic handle. It has rounded edges so it can be carried in your pocket with no problem. I tossed the plastic parts in the trash. It does not need a handle!
The best treated cotton I have tried is the Coghlan's Emergency Tinder. Coating them with magnesium might be fun.
See I kept on the magnesium thread!
The best treated cotton I have tried is the Coghlan's Emergency Tinder. Coating them with magnesium might be fun.
See I kept on the magnesium thread!
I have been a Boy Scout Skill instructor for 19 years. Zippo's are great if you keep them full, butane is hard to light in severe cold, matches get wet. Besides, you most likely won't have them on you when you really need to light a fire. Stop in your local Boy scouts of America Scout Center (Council) and pick up a fire by friction kit. Comes with a fire bow, a spindle, and a couple other parts...Then practice until you can pick up some branches off the forest floor and light a fire. Now you're prepaired. Takes a lot of practice and relatives may think you're nuts when you light your fireplace using the same technique. practice, practice, practice.
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I do not go anywhere - ever- without SA matches, tinder, a butane lighter, and a fire steel. It's in my car. It's in my shoulder bag that goes out the door with me 100% of the time. It's in the fanny pack that goes on whenever I go for a hike - even in an exurban park. I MAY have more. I never have less. This is what I gained from the Scouting motto. It got me funny looks in office settings, as did the knife on occasion, but adult "Boy Scouts" are allowed their excentricities.
From my experience in training Scouts and adults, I suggest that fire-by-friction is not a practical answer for the vast majority. That I can do it - that others can do it far better than I can - is neither here nor there. The vast majority will not have the skills. They will not have practiced sufficiently. Relatively few are at the skill level to do it under ideal conditions of tools, tinder, and weather.
On the other hand, PJ'd cotton balls and an easier form of ignition make it possible for most 11-year-olds to start a fire -- in January -- in Northern Ohio -- while it's snowing -- and blowing.
From my experience in training Scouts and adults, I suggest that fire-by-friction is not a practical answer for the vast majority. That I can do it - that others can do it far better than I can - is neither here nor there. The vast majority will not have the skills. They will not have practiced sufficiently. Relatively few are at the skill level to do it under ideal conditions of tools, tinder, and weather.
On the other hand, PJ'd cotton balls and an easier form of ignition make it possible for most 11-year-olds to start a fire -- in January -- in Northern Ohio -- while it's snowing -- and blowing.
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Okay. Thanks Craig for the info about the Strike Force. I wannnt wwwuunnnn!
Yep, I like the tape idea too. Just a little earlier today while going through a box I came across one of those rectangular mag/striker combos you see in X-marts everywhere. It's just sitting there waiting to be filed down and turned into a fire tape.
I may have to get the fire by friction kit just to get some practice in and just because. I've never done fire that way and would like to at least try it.
My BSA striker is on my key ring when it has been for about 16 years. I always have a knife. So short of losing my keys while out I have fire striking capability. Thinking about lost keys, I think I'll start looking into making a sheath that carries both a folder and firesteel. I may see about moving the little BSA steel to some attached point on me. I may be able to mod the sheath that comes with the F4 Carson to fit a steel to it. Maybe I can modify the antler piece I wear on a leather thong around my neck to fit the steel inside it. Sheesh, more things to daydream about.
Great and useful thread guys! If you can cut and make fire you are already a long way down the road to survival even if everything else gets separated from you.
Yep, I like the tape idea too. Just a little earlier today while going through a box I came across one of those rectangular mag/striker combos you see in X-marts everywhere. It's just sitting there waiting to be filed down and turned into a fire tape.
I may have to get the fire by friction kit just to get some practice in and just because. I've never done fire that way and would like to at least try it.
My BSA striker is on my key ring when it has been for about 16 years. I always have a knife. So short of losing my keys while out I have fire striking capability. Thinking about lost keys, I think I'll start looking into making a sheath that carries both a folder and firesteel. I may see about moving the little BSA steel to some attached point on me. I may be able to mod the sheath that comes with the F4 Carson to fit a steel to it. Maybe I can modify the antler piece I wear on a leather thong around my neck to fit the steel inside it. Sheesh, more things to daydream about.
Great and useful thread guys! If you can cut and make fire you are already a long way down the road to survival even if everything else gets separated from you.
Hi folks, I just took an interesting photo that I hope to be able to share with all of you. The Strike Force on the left has only been in use for a year. The one on the right has been used to teach an estimated thousand scouts, parents and other adult leaders. Anything that can hold up after that much use is a credit to the manufacturer, and I mean that with all my heart. See the (poor) photo on www.rkreiher.com if you wish. (Any other way to add a photo?)