First AR-15 platform, suggestions?

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nguyemic001

Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
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Hey everyone, I'm pretty new to the whole gun scene since I'm just turning 21 now (rifle carry is 18, but I didnt get into shooting until very recently.) Since I just got into shooting, I'm looking for a good solid beginners rifle to build off of/ add onto later on. of course ive done some research and found certain things that i want for my first AR and to avoid any extra work in the future. My budget is around $1100, but don't wanna go that high if I don't have to. my main requirements would be:

a complete flat top, so i dont have to worry about the fixed front sight when i add optics
a free floating system that has quad rails at the ends to fit a bipod(usually gonna be shooting sitting or prone). the hand guard dosnt have to have quad rails through out but just enough to fit a bipod and such. (wish list, but not really necessary, since this can be later upgraded pretty easily)
a heavy barrel, nothing pencil so i can keep a better grouping

although my price is 1100, id prefer if i keep it at 850 or so, that way if i need to buy sights and such.

my current watch list is
DPMS Recon
M&P 15 tactical (although the original is much cheaper, the quad rail is already included)
bushmaster Carbon 15(not feeling the idea of having a carbon fiber receiver though.)


Also, I heard buying complete lowers with a complete upper can be cheaper? anyone think thats a better idea for a guy like me who is getting his first rifle?
Also, id prefer local, so my question is the possibility of buying the complete lower and upper seperately in my state at local gun shops? (im in washington)
 
It's not much cheaper to buy the upper and lower seperately or even put one together from parts. If it were me I'd buy a Colt 6920 and shoot it, add parts if you must. There are other decent rifles for less money but I'm partial to Colt.

You didn't really say but I'm assuming that you're looking for an M4 style rifle? If you're wanting more of a bench gun you may want to look for something without a chrome lined barrel and chambered in .223 rather than 5.56. Shooting .223 out of a chrome lined barrel and a stock trigger will get you 3-4" groups at 100 yds (I'm not a great shot though, you may do better).

You're assumption that a heavy barrel is better isn't 100% true. Pencil, standard, ultra light, or whatever you want to call them, barrels are accurate until they heat up. A light barrel handles much differently than a heavy one. An M4 barrel is normally a light contour barrel under the hand guards and the heavy contour outside with a step for the grenade launcher. I like a light barrel or an M4, even a 16" bull barrel is getting too heavy for me unless its a bench gun.

ETA: here's a bad picture of mine, looking kind of grubby:

005.jpg
 
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I would buy a Colt 6920 or a Daniel Defense, the accessorize it however you wanted.
 
nguyemic001 said:
a complete flat top, so i dont have to worry about the fixed front sight when i add optics
a free floating system that has quad rails at the ends to fit a bipod(usually gonna be shooting sitting or prone). the hand guard dosnt have to have quad rails through out but just enough to fit a bipod and such. (wish list, but not really necessary, since this can be later upgraded pretty easily)
a heavy barrel, nothing pencil so i can keep a better grouping

although my price is 1100, id prefer if i keep it at 850 or so, that way if i need to buy sights and such.
Click to expand...

You get what you pay for as long as you don't buy into one of the many gun buying panics that seem so prevalent after the initial Clinton "gun ban". Spending more after the fact is a lot more expensive than buying the rifle configured properly to begin with.

nguyemic001 said:
my current watch list is
DPMS Recon
M&P 15 tactical (although the original is much cheaper, the quad rail is already included)
bushmaster Carbon 15(not feeling the idea of having a carbon fiber receiver though.)
Click to expand...

These rifles are entry level if that's what you really want. I have seen Colt 6920's sold for $1050 OTD locally. Online, they run ~$1100 with shipping plus you have FFL fees on the receiving end.

nguyemic001 said:
Also, I heard buying complete lowers with a complete upper can be cheaper? anyone think thats a better idea for a guy like me who is getting his first rifle?
Also, id prefer local, so my question is the possibility of buying the complete lower and upper seperately in my state at local gun shops? (im in washington)
Click to expand...

You will avoid F.E.T. (Federal Excise Tax) but, it will generally cost more buy the time you are done.

Lightweight rifles or pencil barrels are fine if you don't shoot a lot however, heat build up will cause your groups to open up. The Daniel Defense S2W "Strength to Weight" barrels are a good balance between stiffness and weight. Good quad rails run ~$300 plus installation so, ask yourself if you want a cheap one that will be replaced later or if you want to save money spent on stuff you will later throw away.

What type of shooting are you going to do? Are you sure an AR-15 is the better choice? The reason I ask is that small groups and shooting prone suggests a cheaper Remington 700PSS "might" be more appropriate for the type of shooting you will do.
 
ah i see, yeah i was looking for something in the m4 platform, if i were to get a colt 6920, how much do you assume it would be to buy and have a gunsmith install a low profile gas block? i was looking at the 6920 since its so cheap and i could build from it, but the front post is what i want gone to keep it completely flat
 
im more of the recreational shooter, im usually sitting since my range doesn't allow for standing firing (thinking of moving to a private range soon like west coast armory). my shots are usually within either 100yards or 50 yards. and i usually spend 2-3 hours at the range in a day of the month so i usually go through 100 rounds a session with my sks at the moment, since my day job and school have been taking up the rest of the week.
 
nguyemic001 said:
ah i see, yeah i was looking for something in the m4 platform, if i were to get a colt 6920, how much do you assume it would be to buy and have a gunsmith install a low profile gas block? i was looking at the 6920 since its so cheap and i could build from it, but the front post is what i want gone to keep it completely flat
Click to expand...

First of all, most people co-witness their optic with the front sight. That being said, you can either cut the tower off yourself and file it down or, drive both pins out and fit one yourself. Labor for a gunsmith swap? I'm guessing ~$25 or so but, I have no clue about labor rates where you live.

For what you want and how much you have to spend, it's hard to find better than the Colt 6920. Bravo Company will give you EXACTLY what you want as will Daniel Defense but, you are looking more in the ~$1800 range.
 
ah i see, well im looking at the colt 6920 and it seems as though that really is the best option for my money. looks like ill have to think hard and see if i should just wait and save for the 1800 area. instead of being too hasty
 
I'll suggest another consideration... I am primarily a gun game player... primarily USPSA pistol and 3 gun... my 3gun rifle is a "franken gun" but a couple of things you might want to consider for an initial purchase... you already said a flat top, needed to mount a good set of glass... a 16" medium weight barrel with mid length gas is a good compromise... you will want full float, and not necessarily one with rails (mine has rails only for a vertical fore grip used as a mono pod)... you will want a good trigger, and aftermarket triggers are $120 and up.... you will want good glass which is expensive... if you start with a standard trigger and factory hand guard fore end, you will be replacing them at additional expense... and for what it's worth... my chrome lined 16" barrel will hold 4" at 400m with S&B 55 grain bullets.... I would suggest a reputable company that offers you what you want in the original package... regards
 
My favorites would be Colt, LaRue, LMT, Noveske, and LWRC. BCM and Daniel Defense are also a good reasonably priced choices and have options with rails. Stay away from DPMS.

Now for some cliches...buy once, cry once as the bitter taste of poor quality lingers long after the sweet taste of a good price is forgotten.
 
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All this Colt talk is kind of making me cringe.

Okay, for starters, don't get a Carbon 15, just say no, hell for the price of that just get a S&W Sport.

You don't necessarily have to get a heavy barrel, a government profile is pretty sturdy and is thicker than an M4 barrel because you get rid of that ugly ars notch for the grenade launcher


Sounds like you're wanting a target rifle, and here's the problem if you go that route with a non competition Colt or a Daniel Defense: They're "mil-spec", and the thing about "mil-spec" ARs is that the triggers suck. The Ambush line of Daniel Defense is nice but the production DD are awful. Rock River and a lot of Armalites come with 2 stag triggers which are crisp, once you get used to the 2 stage aspect.

Besides the consistently bad triggers, I've had good luck with DPMS. I have a 308 AP4, with some hand loads it'll cover a nickel at 100 yards, others (depending on powder) will cover about 2". Have had jams using a C-products 5 round mad that always comes apart and have had issues on light loads not cycling. But that's a 308.

Key to keep an AR running and running good is good lube.

If you build it, you probably will spend more, but at least you'll get an AR that you want. You're not going to spend money on a base AR then dump money in the trigger, the forearm, etc.

Look for a 16 or an 18 inch government profile, midlength gas system, get a trigger you like, find a stock you'll like, same with a forearm (which you always could get a Houge aluminum tube, have a machinist drill and tap it, but a rail section on the bottom, then time it right), get a good bolt carrier group (BCM, Spikes, maybe something nickel boron coated), then for the upper and lower receivers just get a pair that mate well and the brand is reputable.


Then again, some gun shops who stocked up on ARs during the run and didn't sell them quick enough are trying to unload some right now to pay bills. If you're looking at a high end AR you can get a damn good deal on them now on gunbroker. A lot of people don't want to take a hit on an AR that they bought a few months ago, but some shops will sell a couple to get the cash back since they're becoming easier to get now.
 
The M&P is a great option. I love mine. I have the OR model. I've upgraded a lot of the furniture and such but it shoots awesome and I have less than $1100 into it. It's been 100% reliable
 
There are numerous good ones available but I can recomend LMT and Rock River Arms with confidence. RRA has some nice falttop options with quality stainless barrels that will really shoot.

Bill
 
A friend of mine scored a M&P for under a grand, albeit with a LE discount. You might consider a used rifle to get the upgrades you want and remain under budget.
 
While agree with the others in that Colt represents a great value, I'm also of the opinion that just about any AR out there will serve a recreational shooter well. My friend has a DPMS Panther, bone stock, no frills, just a fun and accurate enthusiasts level AR. I have a S&W M&P 15T, it's a great rifle within its price range; adjustable stock, flattop - plenty of rail space, chrome lined barrel, properly staked, flip-up front/rear sights (Troy Industries) and very lightweight. Although I do believe that the newer M&P 15T's have Magupl sights now. Either way, it's a darn good rifle.

Is it on par with my high $$$ LWRC = No. Does it have a hammer-forged barrel like my Daniel Defense = No. Does it have a match-grade precision trigger = No. From an enthusiasts perspective, does the M&P, DPMS or other lower priced AR need to be on par with a high-end AR offering = No! I mean, hell no. The M&P 15T is optic ready, yet has BUIS, enough rail space for anything (bipod, sling, optic, weapons light, AFG, VFG, etc...). Sounds like exactly what you're looking for.

If you're going to run your AR hard, then perhaps consider Knights, DD, Colt, LWRC, BMC, and the like; even though I believe the M&P 15T would survive hard use, I haven't pushed it to that point and therefore can't attest to it from an experience perspective. If it's going to be used as a home defense gun, recreational purposes/range fun, hunting, then buy within your budget and customize later. You already have a good idea of what you'd eventually like to have for accessories. So, if you buy a DPMS for say $800, as opposed to an M&P 15T for say $1100, then you're not really saving anything, because the M&P 15T already has the flattop, floating rail and flip up/down BUIS that you want. Just shoot iron sights for awhile, then bolt on your optic when you're ready and you can just fold down the front sight if you don't want to co-witness. If you're planning to put on a magnified tube-optic, then I wouldn't even worry about whether or not your front sight is fixed or not, cause chances are that the tube scope is going to look beyond the front sight anyways and you won't even see it when looking through the scope.

Of course, having said all that, I'm still a firm believer of buying once and crying once. But, I honestly don't think the price difference of a higher end AR will offer anything to a new AR shooter that a lower priced AR wouldn't. I'm not saying that there isn't a difference, because there is and it can be significant. But, I'm just saying that a new AR shooter may not have the experience, nor the need to differentiate between the features. Obviously, if you had a higher budget and $$$ wasn't a big factor, then you'd be well served with a higher end AR, but why, if you really don't need it? I'll tell you why. Many folks buy high end and only shoot a magazine full of rounds, only to find out that they don't actually have a passion for the rifle. Yea, they dig it and they're happy to own it, but they'll never shoot it enough to justify the additional cost. Buy what you can afford and have fun.
 
What kind of an optic are you planning on? If you put a dot sight on it you may want it to co-witness with the front sight like others have said. If you're putting a scope on it then you will never see the sight through the scope.

So either way you don't need to remove the front sight. If you decide you hate it enough to go to the trouble you can hack saw the sight off and paint it with BBQ paint.

Sounds like what you really want is a 6940 but that would be out of your price range.
 
thanks everyone for their suggestions and recommendations! has anyone had experience with stag in general, ive seen them suggested, but id like more people opinion before i settle on them. im actually looking at the model 3, i can find em for about ~770. i loved how its front post is gone, i was thinking of getting a scope and have backup mbus sights.
 
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