First Batch for HT

TLR

TLR

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 5, 1998
Messages
1,574
I've never been known as one who takes the easiest way. When I decided to make my first knives I started off with four in 3v. Why not make my first knife out of 3v? :D Its not cheap, not as easy to work with and probably the last steel any one would have advised me to use but I have this sickness that even though I know I ought to start with something easier/cheaper I want the best and what if my first knife is perfect?

So I made four at first and they were rough and I learned a lot and also realized that sending them off to HT was going to be a substantial cost and so then I decided to make a few more to help offset the cost. A few turned into fifteen. LOL. To complicate things further a friend said he'd help pay for some steel if I made him one but he wanted a chopper and a big one. I figured if I was going to make him one I might as well get a 36" bar and make two. They were a significant challenge to say the least.

Tonight I finished the last ones and so now I'm ready to send them off to Peter's. I think most I have probably worked them over 3 or 4 times as I learned something on one and then had to go back and redo previous ones. This probably isn't the best way to learn this hobby but I'm moving forward. None of these are of a quality that I would ever sell but I do believe they will be functional.

Just thought I'd share. I truly appreciate the knowledge and experience represented and shared here. I've been reading and searching for years and don't think I'd have ever taken the plunge without Bladeforums as a resource.

attachment.php
 
They look good. I really like the 4th one down on the left.
 
Thanks. That one got reworked a few time but I think came out pretty good. I decided to make them all a little different to learn as much as possible.
 
I think that's an awesome group. Not one among them I wouldn't find a use for. Make sure you post pics of the finished work.
 
TLR said:
Why not make my first knife out of 3v? :D
Click to expand...

Considering you had the $ for the steel and a plan to send them out for pro-level HT, "why not?" indeed. Use the steel you like - and 3V is mighty good steel :)

I would advise adding a few lightening holes to the tangs on all of them. The ones you've done look just about right to me - it doesn't have to look like a spider-web; you want to leave a nice framework of solid steel for strength. Keep in mind that hardened 3V is a complete bear to hand-finish, too. Sand them to at least 400 grit. If they're going to get a machine or tumbled/blasted finish, that doesn't matter so much.

Your research shows. Every one of those designs makes sense in its own way. Nice work! :thumbup:
 
While there is a big variety of shapes there, I think you will find #4,#2,#4 as the best users.

When getting started, it is counter-productive to go in too many directions at once. Pick a single style and make ten of them....one at a time. Each should show some improvement.
If you are sending out to Peters, and want a batch to make it affordable, make one at a time and when the whole batch is ready for HT, then send them off. After HT finish them one at a time.
 
Last edited:
bladsmth said:
While there is a big variety of shapes there, I think you will find #4,#2,#4 as the best users.

When getting started, it is counter-productive to go in too many directions at once. Pick a single style and make ten of them....one at a time. Each should show some improvement.
If you are sending out to Peters, and want a batch to make it affordable, make one at a time and when the whole batch is ready for HT, then send them off. After HT finish them one at a time.
Click to expand...

Stacey, with respect, I tried the multiple same design approach and I hated it and won't do it again. I understand it helping the curve, but it destroys creativity, breeds monotony, and led me to hate what I was doing. I won't go that route again and cringe when hearing that be the first advice to a new maker. For me at least, finding a style I like and keeping the creative juices going leads to wanting to continue making. As I am slowly progressing I am more concerned with fit and finish, but again batches are now definitely not in my future.

Op, I like how all of your knives look like they are meant to be used. Now keep us updated with finished look!
 
If I had to make the same knife every day for more than maybe two days, I'd go bonkers. And if I'd been forced to when first starting out, I never would have stuck with it. Some folks thrive on that approach, and get really productive at it. Different people learn/work in different ways.

I've always wondered how many times Bob Loveless just said, "^&*% this, I cannot stand to look at another 4" drop point hunter again today!!" :D
 
Thanks for all of the comments. All of them are appreciated.

James - You are right in that I probably should add some holes to these before I send them off. That won't take long and I think I'll take your advice.

bladsmith - your advice will always be appreciated. I won't argue as to whether your direction is right or not. I can certainly see that to master certain disciplines and techniques of the knifemaking process spending time on a single style which you can improve repeatedly has significant advantages.

My goal in this first batch was to explore a lot of different shapes and angles to learn what it would take to create them. I figured it would also give me the ability to try out a lot of different styles and shapes that I have liked in other knives I've seen without the ability afford to buy them all and try them out.

All of them have been hand sanded to 400 grit which is why they look hazy. The plan when they come back is to give them a machine finish with a scotchbrite belt although I'm talking to a local guy about possibly coating a few. I made the mistake on several of staying with my 80 grit belt to long and therefore have some scratches that didn't come out which I couldn't take off without thinning the knife out to much.

Interestingly my favorites are #1 & #3 in the first column and #5 in the third column. I really like the nessmuk design. Incidentally #2 was intended to be my knife as a large nessmuk but due to an errant moment on my 2x42, which moves pretty quick, I put a huge groove in it at a low grit and had to grind it way down to have enough meat to work it out. Now it reminds me of a lot of butcher/skinning knives I've used.

The two large choppers actually helped me with the smaller ones as I had a really hard time controlling such a large piece of steel on such a fast grinder. They gave me more time to concentrate on grinding flat over a relatively long period of time. It may be counter intuitive but it helped.

I really wish I had someone I could meet with to get some tips as I know that would shorten the learning curve however I've yet to find that individual within a relatively close location. That does however make me appreciate you guys on BF that much more.

Thanks again.
 
Bladsmith, again I appreciate the input and I may very well take your advice for my next batch.
 
Stacy said it perfectly about doing multiple of the same style. I too am still learning. I also went from shape to shape and would get frustrated because I would struggle getting things to look good. Then I would cut a dozen of the same and start grinding. It is so much easier to see my mistakes and my improvements having the same blades to compare.
 
While I am not good at following good advice, Stacy is dead on regarding skill development. In any hobby I have pursued, branching out and expanding too soon limits development. Becoming a master at anything requires the fundamentals be etched into muscle memory. When my son was in Judo, the warm up was always the same basic skills repeated over and over, whether a black belt or a yellow belt. My current repetition is plunge lines. I am terrible at them, and each blade gets me focusing on the feel of the belt against the metal, the speed and pressure of the metal and how that equals material removal, the feel of the file, experimenting with different shapes of sanding blocks and grits of paper. I can spend hours on just one blade but what is working is now being recognized in feel, rather than thinking. On the other hand, having done a lot of woodworking, I can put together a complex handle in about an hour where it is ready for finish. I don't even have to look at it. I could probably make a handle blindfolded by feel and have it turn out (I'm not going to experiment as a belt sander is not safe to use blindfolded LOL!!!)
 
I like to use a surgeon as my example for most skills.
1) Would you let a surgeon operate on you if he had only read a book about the surgery?
2) Would you let a surgeon operate on you if he had only done the surgery once, and felt that was enough practice?
3) How well would a surgeon learn heart by-pass if he opened up a patient and did a gastric by-pass, a heart by-pass, an appendectomy, a hemeroidectomy, removed a gall stone, and did an ostomy...all at the same time.
4) Or, would you prefer a surgeon who had practiced his heart by-pass surgeries many times in a row to get the skills honed down to perfection. Once he had that well learned, I bet he would do much better in any other surgery he tried.
 
james terrio said:
Somebody did. In fact, somebody let him do it the first time. ;)
Click to expand...

No disrespect intended, but as a health care professional, a Registered Psychiatric Nurse, I have performed many medical procedures. I can guarantee you I had to practice something as simple as an intramuscular injection repeatedly on oranges first, then practice pads, then on my fellow students, then pass a high pressure test with 40 people watching before I was allowed near a patient. The first 10 patients were supervised and I could only perform the procedure unsupervised after getting 100% on the test then given the go ahead after my work was signed off by me preceptor. To do therapy, I had to do 1800h of supervision of ONE MODEL of therapy with an expert in that model before not needing my work co-signed. I am able to use 4 different models of therapy depending on the need of the client. I have been at my job for 20 years, and am considered the "Expert" in what I do, much like the Master level makers here. It takes a long time to get there. I am currently working towards my Nurse Practitioner designation, and the plan will require 1.5h/day on average over 7 years ( I am 1.5 years in at this point) to get there. I could do it faster if I went full time, but that is not an option at this time in my career.
 
No, most surgeries are rehearsed with no patient, or on a cadaver. Then they are watched dozens of times, Then the new surgeon assists in a very minor roll, still observing a well seasoned expert. Finally, the surgeon does the procedure under the eye of the expert, who can ( and often does) step in if needed. Once the new surgeon has enough experience doing the surgery, he can then....and only then....do it unassisted by a more trained surgeon.

The point I was making was that any skill, from flat grinding to heart by-pass is acquired trough repeated attempt, each teaching the student more skills and giving more confidence. If a brand new student bounces around, he will develop low skills, and often be disappointed, which does not build confidence. I get a laugh out of most of the teaching by Pat Morita in Karate Kid, but "Wax on, Wax off" it the way to learn a skill.

Final note:
At The USNA, we learned silly responses to many questions. These had no real meaning, but needed to be automatic in response time. It was learned by repeating them until the brain responded to the question faster than it took to think of the answer. Ask any USNA grad, Ensign to Admiral, no matter how long ago they graduated any of these questions. I doubt many won't spit the answer right out to you.:
( hand a pitcher of milk to him and ask) - How goes the cow?
(look him in the face and ask) - Who was Barnacle Bill the sailor?
( hand him a M-1 or M-14 and ask) - What is the difference between a rifle and a gun?

These questions can be asked without the lead-in, but those situations are part of how the response is stored. Don't try and search for the answers on Google, as the last one is the only one you might find on the internet. The first two are stored safely and permanently in the brains of thousands of former Midshipmen.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top