First Folder Design

L

Liam021

Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
133
Hey guys so this is my first folder design. I haven't done many knives but I use a folder much more useful to me right now. Because I am in school and don't have expendable funds the first two (one for me and my father) I am doing with 410 Stainless handles. Later on I will make some in Ti hopefully.

IMG_1171.jpg



So let me talk a bit about the design of the knife. I first designed the handle after the first folding knife I bought as a child, a "Schrade X Timer B". Google image it if you want hahah. Anyway I love the knife.

Handle
To me I think the most comfortable knives are the ones with a good finger choil like a Kershaw Skyline. Even more comfortable and ergonomic I find having two finger choils and having the middle finger have a little more "girth" for the longer finger. I also love a good thumb ramp. I find knives like these are the best feeling and most secure in the hand. Like I said before I am using 410 stainless for the handles .180ish" but I also will be making one that is .120ish" thick.

Blade
As for the blade I just chose something that felt natural and looked good. Flat grind because its all I can do with my little 1x42" grinder. I am using N690 Stainless steel .160ish" thick.

Other
I am using Alpha Knife Supply (AKS) .125" with the .250" bushing. I am using their new ceramic caged bearings witch are extremely pricey! Hopefully they work out well its my first folder with bearings. I am going to polish the bearing to a mirror finish to allow the bearings to roll on the smoothest surface I can get them to. I am also using the Hoback Rolling Detent (HRD). The HRD screws that I wanted to get, the stainless version, where all sold out (Damn Jake buying them all up! :P) so I had to settle for the carbon steel version, for now. I am going to be making my own bent pocket clips out of .050" 410 stainless. I am using KnifeKits backspacer/stoppin combo set and thumb studs. I was planning on using just regular flat head screws for for the pivot backspacer and stop pin but I'm thinking now I will use the knifeKits "Alien Spanner head" screws instead. I am just not sure how to countersink/counterbore them to be flush. Instead of using the flat heads for the rest of the hardware I think I might just use button heads and then use a step drill to set them. I think the button head screws will be better when I contour the handles. Not sure where I am going to get the heat treat done but I want to get the best of the best, I was thinking Peters or Paul Bos. This knife is going to be heavy I know that ahhahaa. I forgot to put a ruler in the picture but it is just under 8.5" tip to tip and 1.5" wide at the widest part on the handle. 3.35" Blade length. This is by fart the biggest knife I will own once it is made and I cannot wait to get it started!

I was also thinking of using a 6-32 Alien Spanner Head screws from KnifeKits as a "LockbarStablizer" But from what I know I have to get licensing from the Rick Hinderer but I am not sure how to do this or how any of that works. If anyone could help me out that would be great.

Let me know what you guys think and If you have any input it would be great to hear, I cant wait to get out and start grinding!

-Liam Cooley
 
Liam,
I think that you have thought out what you want to use extremely well, the problem is I don't think that you have the experience to pull off your vision, sorry.

I would revise your drawing to show the blade tang and the lockbar location to make sure you have room for the bearings. You don't want the lock bar cut to protrude into the bearing pocket.

For your first folder you have picked a blade steel that is pretty tough with a lot of Chromium and Vanadium and it will eat your 1X42 belts.

There is no need to use a bushing and bearings, pick the pivot and either bushings or bearings.

Using 410 for handle material will make the knife extremely heavy, you will also have to heat treat the lock side and the non locking side if you want the finish to look the same on both sides.

A rolling detent sounds nice but your making a lot more work for yourself.

I suggest that you start with something simpler before you jump into build something so complicated.
 
I already Have most the stuff bought and have received it. I am doing the handles in 410 just because of the price. I honestly dont care how the knife looks at all. Between me and my father both being mechanics the knife is black half the time anyway so the finish on each scale doesn't have to match. We just out knives hard, that is why I wanted a hard tough steel like N690. I know its going to eat away the belts and we have many right now because of using the grinder in my fathers automotive garage. I am also getting a grinder made by the guy that designed the Wilmont grinder. It is a new and improved Canadian made grinder. There has been lots of delays but hopefully it will be here in the next month. I thought it would be easier to polish and give the bearings a smooth place to roll on if I got the bushing. The bushing I can push out and polish where as I dont know how well the counterbore will leave a a finish. Plus I heard that the ceramic balls can sometimes eat into or "scrape/grind" away at the steel when people use them for detents. So I thought it would be easier to have a replaceable spot for the bearings to wear into, so if after years of use the knife develops play and becomes loose we can easily replace it by sizing and polishing a new bushing and just pushing it into the blade.

I want to get the N690 blades professionally heat treated but I am going to look into seeing how hard it is to heat treat 410 and I may just do it myself depending on the difficulty. I also picked up some scrap aluminum and stainless yesterday at a metal place here in Ottawa. The aluminum is .267 x 15.5 x 2.0 and a piece of stainless that is .190 x 10.2 x 2 for $10 cash. I dont know what type of aluminum or stainless but for scrap just as a test I thought it was a fair price.

As for the HRD being a lot more work for myself, I have never done a detent before. So I thought instead of starting out and doing a dozen knives to figure out how to do a standard detent "Right" I might as well start off doing the best way and getting that right, plus I can adjust it slightly if I do mess it up.

As for having enough room for the bearing pocket and the lockbar I think I have figured it out. The bearing pocket is just under 3/16 or .3125. If I leave 7/16 room for the pivot and bearing pockets then I have a 1/16 edge around the bearings I thought that Would be plenty for the lockbar to be cut out. So I calculated it out that I need the cutout to be .21875 away from the center of the pivot for me to be "Safe" in that regard. Round it up to an easier number I need to be .22 away from the center of the pivot. Also I am cutting the lockbar with a dremel cutoff disk that Im just chucking in my drill press and it is 1/16.


The reason that I designed this to be sutch a difficult build is that I want to push myself until I can do it. The best knife I own is a Spyderco Tenacious, the best knife my father owns is a Kershaw Skyline. I really think between me and him we can beat that and thats what the original goal was.
 
Liam,
You should care about how the knife looks because it is a representation of your work.
410 being stainless needs an oxygen free atmosphere to be heat treated in. It also needs to be spring tempered at a specific temperature to have it operate correctly as a frame lock.

The bearing riding on the hard blade will eventually wear a polished path into the blade making it smoother. The pocket in the handle should be left with a nice finish if you use a new and sharp counter bore.

Check your math, 3/16 is not .3125, it is 5/16.

It just sounds like you are making it more complicated that you have to. Adding bushings, and bearings and a roller detent are all things that can compound the difficulty of building the knife. If one thing is off then it will all be off.

Good luck.
 
Chuck Gedraitis Knives said:
Liam,
You should care about how the knife looks because it is a representation of your work.
410 being stainless needs an oxygen free atmosphere to be heat treated in. It also needs to be spring tempered at a specific temperature to have it operate correctly as a frame lock.

The bearing riding on the hard blade will eventually wear a polished path into the blade making it smoother. The pocket in the handle should be left with a nice finish if you use a new and sharp counter bore.

Check your math, 3/16 is not .3125, it is 5/16.

It just sounds like you are making it more complicated that you have to. Adding bushings, and bearings and a roller detent are all things that can compound the difficulty of building the knife. If one thing is off then it will all be off.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I will try this then try try try again. I want to get this right. And I suppose I will have to get the 410 done by someone ahahah. Also Thanks for the tip on the bearings wearing in, and I have no idea why I put 3/16 not 5/16 ahhaha. Thanks for the help Chuck I will be sure to post pictures when I get it done.

I also might not be starting the project until I get the grinder because the tabletop drill press we have doesn't have a small enough chuck to accept anything under 1/16 so I need to get something so I can drill detent holes.
 
Liam, I really would listen to what Chuck had to say.
He's given you some very sound advice there.
Even the simplest design you could imagine can prove to be a challenge, and you have lined up a shopping list worth of challenges to overcome in one knife.
 
leifjl said:
Liam, I really would listen to what Chuck had to say.
He's given you some very sound advice there.
Even the simplest design you could imagine can prove to be a challenge, and you have lined up a shopping list worth of challenges to overcome in one knife.
Click to expand...

Yes I am doing what Chuck said and designing a new model, but I am still going to try the first one pictured here as I have all the materials for 2 knives.
 
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