First Folder, some progress

Varga Knives

Varga Knives

Joined
Aug 12, 2006
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After 10 mock-ups and countless design revisions I'm nearly there! I have been hesitant about sharing progress pics, I was only going to post after it was done but I need some unbiased input. Ever have something turn out just the way you wanted it to and you didn't like it? That's where I am now. I don't think it's bad but it's just not... right. Maybe it's a "forest-for-the-trees" kinda thing. I dunno.

Not finished yet, still have to:
HT and finish the blade.
Counterbore and swap out pivot.
Finish up the lockface.
Press a stop pin.
Polish and adjust standoff and screws.
Bend lockbar.
Carve a clip.
Detent.

1.JPG2.JPG3.JPG4.JPG5.jpg

Everything came together nicely and I was happy up until the embelishments. The orange peel came out better than I was expecting (thanks Alan Davis!) and even the carving (not really carving and not really stippling, kind of a combo) came out nice. I think the combo is what's throwing me off. Maybe the pattern? Too much bling? I think I'm going to try and tone down the bling with anodizing. What would you do?

Thanks,
Mark
 
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I like it design wise. Fit and finish will help the overall design. I think the screws are a bit cramped up against the edge. What could be missing from your two handle finishes is a polished line between them?
 
Please keep in mind I have not made a folder. What strikes me at first look is the stark contrast between the smoothly rounded lines of the knife compared to the pointy angular pattern of the texture. Maybe do the texture on the whole handle? Jess
 
Thanks! Both excellent points! A line line at the transition would make a much more finished appearance. I might try it with a file with a file guide perpendicular to the line as a stop. That's the only way I can think of to do it without a mill.

Also true about the pointy contrast. The texture started off as a standard "bolster" pattern but didn't look right so I lengthened it. Still didn't look right so I went to where it is now. I probably should have quit while I was ahead and the point wouldn't have been such a stark contrast.

Great things to think about for next time... and there will be more :)
 
I really like the scales personally, and wouldn't change them. What needs work IMHO is the blade, which finish wise doesn't match up. A really good hand rubbed finish, will complement the scales nicely. There also appear to be some fitment issues with the hardware.


Getting everything counterbored just right takes practice though, and as mentioned, one of your screws looks be nearly hanging off the edge.
 
Thanks Javan. The blade is pre-heat treat and will be touched up a little before that. I will probably end up with an acid stonewash because I like how that wears. None of the hardware is going on the final piece. The stand off screws were perfectly fine until I beveled the handle edges and now it looks cramped as stated. The picture looks worse than it really is and a little more countersinking should help.
 
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Much better, a tad thicker maybe? I think rounded there might not work but you won't know until you do it :)

Honestly? You will hate me but maybe redo the scales entirely that hanging screw will bug you forever :). Possibly use smaller headed screws too?

You could also add a quite short, straight clip point grind which has the same angle as your scale angle to get rid of what Jesse said about the mismatch of angles design and curved, rounded blade? Then you can keep your original scale design.

regards, Ben
 
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The most negative part of the folder is the stippled bolsters. Yes perhaps the screws for the back bar are a bit big but those bolsters take away from the rest of the folder. They become all there is. I believe otherwise Varga you are doing a fine job especially for your first. If I can help you with how to fit in and angles for blade and leaf spring , please contact me at niro@telus.net Frank
 
No hate at all, I appreciate the input.

Not going to chuck the scales because there is a little more room there than the picture shows. My beveling of the scale edge knocked down the outside of the screw countersink and fixing it will be an important lesson for me. Even if it never looks just right this is just a prototype and will help me work the bugs out.

Smaller headed screws are something I'm considering for future knives. I went overbuilt on this one and I really don't think it's necessary. You see, I have 4-40 screws going into 3/16" threaded connector. The standoff scale holes are 3/16" and the connector feeds into the scale about half way lending strength against shear force. The standoffs are Hinderer standoffs which are lapped and turned down a bit but allow the 3/16" connector to feed snugly through. Anyway, it seems like the industry standard screws for this application are 2-56 and can simply be threaded into a standoff. Much easier to make than anything else I can think of but I don't know if there will be an appreciable loss in strength in real world testing (something I am going to have to try). The alternative is a strength compromise between the two which may be the way to go. Simply a screw (maybe 4-40) passing through an unthreaded standoff and threaded into the opposite scale. Frank Niro thought favorably of that approach in an earlier post.

Hey Frank. Saw your post after I sent mine. Next one I'm just going with an orange peel. Also, 2-56 screws just look so tiny to me but that's probably something I have to just get over as their shear strength looks to be plenty strong for the application. The only way I could think of to break a properly fitted 2-56 screw would be to throw one knife scale in a vise while hammering on the other. Not actually something that would happen accidently in the real world.
 
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Maybe do a picture with texture all the way around the edge in a flowing pattern. That may mask the screws a bit. (Edit to add a poor drawing but you get the idea) Jess
7.JPG
 
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I agree with Frank that the stippling is the definite weak point.
I also think the chain ring bolt pivot is out of place, regular pivot with regular screws would better compliment the rest of the look of the knife
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. I really don't mind that you guys don't like certain things as long as reasons are given and that's what I'm getting so far. I really appreciate it I can take something away from every post!

Stippling is out on follow-ups and will be changed up on this one. It's going to be tester anyway so all is good.

Chainring bolt is temporary. I have nicer pivots but there was no sense scratching them up for as many times as this needs to come apart during a build.
 
Damn dude, I thought the original stippling was the strong point of the knife. Otherwise, nothing really sets it apart from the next knife. Obviously, you asked for opinions, but most knifemakers are gonna tell you what they like to make. Some issues are technical, and somewhat objective, the rest, are personal, and entirely subjective.


I understand trying to make something with general appeal, but you should allow yourself to have some confidence in you aesthetic. It's the only thing that'll keep you from making the exact same knife of a type that somebody else makes.


Frank obviously knows how to make extremely nice pocket knives, and many people love his style, personally, I find it to be overwhelmingly busy (no offense Frank, I admire your work, but the aesthetic just isn't quite for me, and I mention this to prove a point).. If you're lucky, people will feel the same about your work, they'll either love it, or hate it. That's typically a sign that you're on to something. If everybody likes it, it lacks distinction.


Just my 2c. Take it for what it's worth. Not trying to be contradictory, and I hope no offense is taken.
 
Javand is saying a lot of real good stuff. For sure, your work and mine will be very different and should be. I do believe however that if you had some scales of coloured ivory or mammoth tooth say, each would be "strong " along and together make the whole. Javand, there are many that believe my folders are certainly not for them. I certainly understand that. Frank
 
Good points. Try to please everyone and you end up pleasing no one. Technical aspects aside, I k ow I have to find my own way. The fact remains that the stippling didn't please me. Maybe with some of the planned changes I will get the warm and fuzzies about it and maybe not but I'll keep an opened mind for future endeavors. With me, I immediately know what I like when I see it but the creative side on getting to that point is where I personally need work. Once I fine tune the mechanics I will hopefully be able to better meld the two.

One of the reasons I love titanium is the endless possibilities. I see a Lala or Cucchiara and I am amazed at the work they can produce but, of course, none of that matters if it's not a good knife first.
 
Just Anodize the stippled part Purple mask and do the Orange Peel in Blue or Gold whatever... Celebrate the difference it will take on a new look
BTW Nicely done just scoot the screws in a tad
If it were me (Will soon be) would do the same design style until it is perfect in your eyes. That will be a great start place for the next design, Start Strong!
 
Thanks. Part stippling and part orange peel. Jeweling (aka; engine turning, krayling, snailing, etc), although another embellishment, is something completely different and typically done on the inside of the scales.
 
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