First Handgun

A Justice said:
You can't go wrong with Glock, Springfield, Smith & Wesson's M&P series, CZ75, or a Ruger SR9. However, Sig has a few models that are around $600, and you can get an XDM for 600$. That extra $200 opens up a whole new world - you could probably find a used SIG 226 for around $600 on your regional Facebook firearms group. I'd probably stick to a Glock, Springfield XDM or S&W M&P and get at least a 4.5" barrel as a beginner, and only go Ruger or SIG if you find a good deal.

Do yourself a favor and go with 9mm. You'll get superior capacity, and 9mm gets the most attention from ammo manufacturers. Some of the new rounds for a 9mm create 440+ lbs of energy at the muzzle - rounds like the 147gr Ranger SXT that LE has long sworn by only have 320, and I trust those completely. I have been impressed with Liberty's Civil Defense, and Mag Tech's Justice, which are 55gr and 92gr respectively, but have muzzle velocities of approx. 1900fps and 1500fps respectively. I have tried ballistics gel, ribs wrapped around water jugs, and a few other testing media, and have gotten consistent results with everything.

If you want to go bigger, go straight to .45. .40 is an answer for a question that doesn't exist. They are harder to resale, the bullets are often harder to find (except when everyone makes a run on ammunition), and most of the original .40 caliber guns were built on 9mm platforms, meaning your firearm will not last as long, and is more prone to a catastrophic failure. Don't switch barrels either - it's alright to get a .22 barrel for plinking, but buying a .40 GLock just so you can switch between 9mm and .40 is not a good idea. You sacrifice accuracy, and it increases the likliehood of a failure to feed, eject or cycle. If you want to shoot 9mm, buy a 9mm.

Whatever you buy, don't be afraid to shoot it and dryfire, and get some type of comprehensive basic training that teaches safety, stance, grip, sight alignment, and trigger pull. I always replace the triggers too. All these guns can be dry fired (although the XDM has problems with the Striker retaining pin breaking if you dry fire without snap caps a lot - Powder River Precision sells replacement roll pins that solve this problem).

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As a side note, I put together a small list of learning resources for first time gun owners, and people that have owned firearms for years but never bothered to master the fundamentals. The first stage of learning a skill is unconscious incompetent - you think you're great, but really don't know wtf you're doing. Learn about the 4 stages of competence . This is an extremely pervasive problem with gun owners. I looked up some basic instructional pages, and picked out a few good resources that have sound, proven, and widely accepted instruction.


Fundamentals of Pistol Shooting - Gives basic info and advice

Fundamentals of Handguns (This is a Comprehensive Guide - Be sure to read this)

Travis Haley Teaches Proper Handgun Grip

[video=youtube;DDZDttBfock]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDZDttBfock[/video]

If you are serious about becoming a good shooter and building on solid fundamentals, I strongly suggest purchasing better education materials.

Magpul Art of the Dynamic Handgun Video- Basic Marksmanship followed by effective drills

Donn Mann's Modern Day Gunslinger -This is considered the Bible when it comes to Pistol Marksmanship Books. Has good pictures, and gives a good account of the history of marksmanship development.


After you start practicing, this illustration sometimes helps diagnose problems. You can self diagnose problems by eliminating each variable one by one - this chart will not always give the correct answer

wheel.gif



I'm not saying that OP is not a good shooter, or that anybody isn't, but if you haven't learned fundamentals from an authoritative source, you are not shooting as well and as efficiently as you can. The majority of gun owners think they are good shots, but have a severe lack of knowledge. Being honest with yourself is very important if you wish to improve your performance with a handgun. There is nothing wrong or embarrassing about not being an expert.
Click to expand...

That fundamentals target is good stuff! :thumbup:
If you're interested in a SIG for your first handgun, CDNN currently has some very nice LE P229s and P226 DAKs. If you're a novice I suggest you steer clear of the .357 SIG models though. The muzzle blast and flip can surprise the living bleep out of somebody unaccustomed to at least a high-velocity .40 S&W offering, like a 135gr Winchester Ranger T-Series.
 
How a pistol feels in your hand is very important. I like Glocks just fine and they are very dependable. Jams are rare. They're also pretty easy to take apart and clean and work on if need be. I would stick with 9mm, but I am pretty much a 40 S&W shooter with a Glock 23. I like the middle sized Glocks the best. Have a Glock 22 and seldom shoot it.

I read that current manufacture Sigs are not the guns of even a couple years ago.

I do like the feel of the Ruger SR9. I think the LCP is too small unless the gun is being purchased specifically for carry.
 
A Justice said:
You can't go wrong with Glock, Springfield, Smith & Wesson's M&P series, CZ75, or a Ruger SR9. However, Sig has a few models that are around $600, and you can get an XDM for 600$. That extra $200 opens up a whole new world - you could probably find a used SIG 226 for around $600 on your regional Facebook firearms group. I'd probably stick to a Glock, Springfield XDM or S&W M&P and get at least a 4.5" barrel as a beginner, and only go Ruger or SIG if you find a good deal.

Do yourself a favor and go with 9mm. You'll get superior capacity, and 9mm gets the most attention from ammo manufacturers. Some of the new rounds for a 9mm create 440+ lbs of energy at the muzzle - rounds like the 147gr Ranger SXT that LE has long sworn by only have 320, and I trust those completely. I have been impressed with Liberty's Civil Defense, and Mag Tech's Justice, which are 55gr and 92gr respectively, but have muzzle velocities of approx. 1900fps and 1500fps respectively. I have tried ballistics gel, ribs wrapped around water jugs, and a few other testing media, and have gotten consistent results with everything.

If you want to go bigger, go straight to .45. .40 is an answer for a question that doesn't exist. They are harder to resale, the bullets are often harder to find (except when everyone makes a run on ammunition), and most of the original .40 caliber guns were built on 9mm platforms, meaning your firearm will not last as long, and is more prone to a catastrophic failure. Don't switch barrels either - it's alright to get a .22 barrel for plinking, but buying a .40 GLock just so you can switch between 9mm and .40 is not a good idea. You sacrifice accuracy, and it increases the likliehood of a failure to feed, eject or cycle. If you want to shoot 9mm, buy a 9mm.

Whatever you buy, don't be afraid to shoot it and dryfire, and get some type of comprehensive basic training that teaches safety, stance, grip, sight alignment, and trigger pull. I always replace the triggers too. All these guns can be dry fired (although the XDM has problems with the Striker retaining pin breaking if you dry fire without snap caps a lot - Powder River Precision sells replacement roll pins that solve this problem).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a side note, I put together a small list of learning resources for first time gun owners, and people that have owned firearms for years but never bothered to master the fundamentals. The first stage of learning a skill is unconscious incompetent - you think you're great, but really don't know wtf you're doing. Learn about the 4 stages of competence . This is an extremely pervasive problem with gun owners. I looked up some basic instructional pages, and picked out a few good resources that have sound, proven, and widely accepted instruction.


Fundamentals of Pistol Shooting - Gives basic info and advice

Fundamentals of Handguns (This is a Comprehensive Guide - Be sure to read this)

Travis Haley Teaches Proper Handgun Grip

[video=youtube;DDZDttBfock]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDZDttBfock[/video]

If you are serious about becoming a good shooter and building on solid fundamentals, I strongly suggest purchasing better education materials.

Magpul Art of the Dynamic Handgun Video- Basic Marksmanship followed by effective drills

Donn Mann's Modern Day Gunslinger -This is considered the Bible when it comes to Pistol Marksmanship Books. Has good pictures, and gives a good account of the history of marksmanship development.


After you start practicing, this illustration sometimes helps diagnose problems. You can self diagnose problems by eliminating each variable one by one - this chart will not always give the correct answer

wheel.gif



I'm not saying that OP is not a good shooter, or that anybody isn't, but if you haven't learned fundamentals from an authoritative source, you are not shooting as well and as efficiently as you can. The majority of gun owners think they are good shots, but have a severe lack of knowledge. Being honest with yourself is very important if you wish to improve your performance with a handgun. There is nothing wrong or embarrassing about not being an expert.
Click to expand...

.40 was invented for the FBI. The problem was that 9mm didn't have the penetration/stopping power to put the bad guys down in one shot. Available sidearms in .45 had limited capacity and were deemed to be unsuitable, so the 10mm was developed as a high capacity high energy replacement for the 9mm. Unfortunately, it was difficult to shoot for some agents and ultimately was replaced by the .40 s&w that we are all now familiar with.

The .40 is a nice intermediate cartridge for those looking for higher capacity than a .45 but more power than the 9mm. A nice hot .40 rounds will best any 9mm on the market, and offers almost the same flat trajectory.

You can get a high cap .45, but it will be huge and heavy.

All that being said, the . 40 does have a snappy recoil, and I have found several .45's that feel softer to shoot, but it just depends on the weight and ergonomics of the gun.
 
Micahdrake said:
I'm looking for my first handgun. I can't afford too much, around $400 dollars to be more exact. I don't necessarily have a preference on any details of the gun, just wanting a quality Pistol. Not a .22, however. Suggestions?
Click to expand...
You are located in USA obviously. Almost anywhere else in the world you either can't have one or you can't afford to be choosey. Reason handguns are so taboo is they serve no real function aside from fun, illegal activity or for self-defense. Intimidation-wise $400 is a good money towards the purchase of a surplus 9 mm Russian Makarov and a lifetime supply of ammo. If in fact you figure to humanely hunt game with a hogleg then $400 will go a long ways towards getting you set up with a single shot pistol and multiple barrels so as you can experiment with cartridges/loads/bullets. Stay away from autos if you don't have much money (they become more and more unreliable as they age, and if they don't get cleaned after use).
 
CZ SP-01, CZ 75 or 85 CZ P-07, CZ P-09.

You should be able to find all of those in your price range if you buy used. Or if you look hard enough, you might find them new for around 450. The SP-01, 75, and 85 are full size steel frame. The 85 is a 75 with ambidextrous controls and no firing pin block which results in a better trigger pull. The SP-01 is a full size but with a rail on the frame. The P-07 is a compact polymer with a rail, while the P-09 is the full size polymer with a rail. The P-07 and P-09 come with a parts kit so that they can be converted from da/sa to decocker.

Here is my CZ. It is none of the ones I listed, but is based on the SP-01. It is a highly customized CZ Shadow.

seawc4.jpg
 
onetrickpony said:
.40 was invented for the FBI. The problem was that 9mm didn't have the penetration/stopping power to put the bad guys down in one shot. Available sidearms in .45 had limited capacity and were deemed to be unsuitable, so the 10mm was developed as a high capacity high energy replacement for the 9mm. Unfortunately, it was difficult to shoot for some agents and ultimately was replaced by the .40 s&w that we are all now familiar with.

The .40 is a nice intermediate cartridge for those looking for higher capacity than a .45 but more power than the 9mm. A nice hot .40 rounds will best any 9mm on the market, and offers almost the same flat trajectory.

You can get a high cap .45, but it will be huge and heavy.

All that being said, the . 40 does have a snappy recoil, and I have found several .45's that feel softer to shoot, but it just depends on the weight and ergonomics of the gun.
Click to expand...

And bullet technology in 2014 has all but negated the previous bonuses that .40sw offered over 9mm.
 
If you look around you can find great deals on a quality used hand gun I picked a west Germany p228 up Saturday for well under $500 at my local gun store looks almost new even being over 22 year's old . came with all matching serial numbers slide, frame, barrel, box, and test target. Even the original plastic bags and manual
 
bradpierson26 said:
And bullet technology in 2014 has all but negated the previous bonuses that .40sw offered over 9mm.
Click to expand...

What if those same technologies are applied to the .40 cartridge? I'm not a .40 salesman, just an honest question.

Seems like more case capacity and a heavier bullet will have better terminal ballistics using similarly designed bullets.
 
onetrickpony said:
What if those same technologies are applied to the .40 cartridge? I'm not a .40 salesman, just an honest question.

Seems like more case capacity and a heavier bullet will have better terminal ballistics using similarly designed bullets.
Click to expand...

That's fair.
Even between 9mm and .45acp, the permanent wound channels aren't going to be terribly different.
With 9mm barrier blind ammo, you can still do work against sheet metal or auto glass with a 9mm.
Temporary wound cavity and energy transfer mean nothing in terms of pistol ammo.


With bullets like 147g HST or 124g +P gold dots, i'll take a higher capacty, lighter recoiling weapon every day.
YMMV.
 
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