First hidden tang

P

PoolQs

Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Messages
93
Want to thank Bladsmth for inspiring this one. I was going thru the WIP section and came across Bladsmth's hidden tang.
I decided to try it out since all the instructions are in front of me. This is only my 7th knife so venturing out of my level of skill.
It started a Western style full tang slicer but got morphed into a western blade with an Eastern (Japanese) handle.
Had one idea and then just kept getting more. Then the WIP. I am just getting to the "putting together" stage and hopefully get that
and the handle done this week.
Need some suggestions on the tip. Most westerns have points up and centered while
Japanese are more pointed down. Mine is kinda in the middle ... any suggestions to make it look more appealing?

Making the micarta, profiling the blade, and picking the right handle:
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Piecing it together just to visualize the shaping,
it will be a six sided handle:
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Specs:

Material: 1084 HT 60rc
Bolster: Black Paper micarta and brass
Handle: 5.25" Spalted Walnut
Blade: 8"
Height: 2" at heel to spine
Thickness: .07 mm
Flat grind to .014 mm
Will have convex edge at 10 deg 3M microbelt 40, 20, 9m then whetstone up to 8k

Thanks for looking and commenting,
Troy
 
I am going with the 6 sided. Think 8 beyond me at this point.
Hopefully this summer, I will be able to get that "Wheeler 9in variable deluxe sander with Nathan's disc" to help with these types of handles.
For now, muscle power :D
 
You get 8 from knocking all the corners off of a square. How you planning to do 6?
I like the blade profile a lot, I think I'd just shrink the radius of the transition from heel to tang a little bit for better balance.
 
forgive me for being a lost newbie who can't navigate a website but where is this WIP section? would love to go through that.
 
Thanks for the encouragement !! Boogaloo- you are right, I can do that. I was over thinking the geometry and 8 only makes more sense.
Could you explain "shrink the radius" please. I think I know where you are going but want to make sure I understand. Thx

Phorizt - Here are many WIP's that Bladsmth put together for all of us under one roof. Valuable Help !!!
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...and-Hammer-In-Multiple-WIPs-and-Tutorials#top

Thanks again Bladsmth for getting them in one place and to all the makers that are generous enough to take their valuable time to
show others, like myself, all the video's and WIP's to make our hobbies MUCH MORE enjoyable !!!
 
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ok thanks. I had seen that before but didn't look closely enough in the sticky thread to find it again.
 
Troy-


This is looking good man! :)


As much as it irks me to see the guys that want immediate gratification and have zero respect for others... That all goes away when I see a guy like you Troy... Working hard, stepping out into new methods, and taking pride in your work. :thumbup:


I'm not blowing sunshine up your shorts here. I'd much rather take a minute to encourage you guys that are really trying, than to complain about the ones who aren't.

The knife is looking great Troy. :cool:
 
Right on, take your time and do it right. Looks like you have a good plan and a good attitude :thumbup:
 
Thank you sooo much for your inspirational words !!!

Well, I did a rookie mistake while gluing everything up. I read that I get all the parts
in play, glue, then put your handle pin in after 2 hours of setting up and then peen.
Aaarrrggg ... I think I got some bad advice or I peened wrong.

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I knew that I didn't want a mushroom type peen, just enough to compress and expand for strength and hold.
What did I do wrong or could this have been just a weak spot in the wood ?

I did learn two things today in my new knife making endevour ... ALWAYS by 2 of everything !!!
I bought enough to do 4 handles and already cut to size. Find out tomorrow if 2nd attempt wins.

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Any help or advise about setting time and peening wood will help ... Thanks
Troy
 
Not all glues are created equal. If you used some cheap quick setting glue, it will be hard in 2 hours. So first question, what glue are you using?

Second question is harder to answer... what method are you using to peen? Looks to me like you tried to compress the pin too much, causing it to split the wood. All you really want to do is cause the ends to expand just a little. You don't want the rest of the pin compressing on itself.
 
I was using the Gorilla epoxy which is not quick set. I ran out of JB and never had problems with Gorilla (used it on 2 handle refinishes). I am using JB Weld on 2nd.
I have been peening 304 bolsters and had no issues. But you are right, I had read that you wanted the whole pin to expand to get the tight fit both internally and on tops.
On the bolsters, I do countersink for the peens and mushroom them then grind. But on this one, I wasn't trying to mushroom,
but I was trying to expand the middle section to hold tight to the tang. I guess I compressed too much and split it. Lesson learned !!!

Ok, then what is the better way to peen it with wood without splitting but still peening. Not wanting a dome when doing wood, correct? Do you still countersink in wood?
Or is the pin there now to be stability for the epoxy in the handle?

I know a lot of questions, but I think I can get this with "A little help for my friends". I only have to screw up once to learn that I won't be doing THAT again.
Troy
 
Actually, Gorilla Epoxy is fast set. According to their web site, sets in 5 minutes, 30 minutes clamp time. By two hours, it's gonna be hard. I wonder who gave you that advice and what glue they assumed you would be using.

Anyway, when you're gluing and pinning, the pin is mainly there to add a little extra support, not to be the main strength of the handle. I would just peen it gently to make sure there were no visible gaps around it.
 
Thank you tryppyr !!! You have told me what is now needed. Tap, Tap, Tap ....
I just went out to the shop and it says 10 min set and 30 clamp, 1 hr to sand ... cure 12hrs
I guess I will need to try the epoxy that everyone on here talks about. Can't remember the name ... west??
 
Yes, most of the guys love West Systems. I never tried it, but I assume it's good. I use Brownell's Acraglas (not the gel, but some swear by that too).
 
Again, I wanted to thank everyone for their support and encouragement!!!
Especially Tryppyr for helping me with the pin issue. Tried to do a smaller ring with a black ring around it.
Need work on this one.

I did another first on my way to "knifemaker" status. Not only is this my first hidden tang, but I decided to finish
the handle 100% machine free. All my other knifes I have shaped and almost to final sand on grinder. I wanted the
experience of shaping and of running through the gamet of grits ... "use them like their free" ... so I did it. 220 - 2500

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and here is how they look now ... "no oils, finish, or lacquers have been used in this demonstration" :D

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I get to start my oil regiment tonight ... can't wait to see those stripes shine !!!

Thanks for the comments,
Troy
 
Look'n good. :)

FWIW- I wouldn't peen a pin in wood unless it's going to be domed, or you do it so that it mushrooms out into a pocket of steel or synthetic (like Karl Andersen has shown quite a few times here on the forum).

The way I dome my pins, most of the pin swelling is simply mushrooming the ends of the pin (outside the wood), rather than trying to get it to swell inside the hole. Of course you can't avoid it all together, but most of it.

I glue a knife up with a waxed dummy pin through the handle, and don't put the actual pin in until everything else is done with the handle work.
 
NickWheeler said:
I glue a knife up with a waxed dummy pin through the handle, and don't put the actual pin in until everything else is done with the handle work.
Click to expand...

waxed dummy pin ... new one to me. Could you explain further and why the uses ? Thx Nick,
Troy
 
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