First Hut fire FAIL!

[cody1]

Your comment struck me as funny, because nearly every traditional sauna and sweat lodge uses heated rocks for the heat source. I guess you have never seen them. River rocks are rocks that have tumbled down river far enough to be made round. Not rocks soaking in water.

 

[cmurphy]

Nice work! Thats a great shelter!

As was already stated, split the wood small and strip the bark. Treat as if you're building a smokeless fire so you cant be detected. To increase heat retention, put a space blanket or two midway up the inner walls. Keeping the smoke down takes a bit more work and patience but it totally pays off. I like the hot rock idea but I can see that a fire in a shelter vs. heating rocks outside in a fire or basically two different designs. When I get in my shelter, I dont want to leave too often.

Enjoy!

 

[cmurphy]

Your comment struck me as funny, because nearly every traditional sauna and sweat lodge uses heated rocks for the heat source. I guess you have never seen them. River rocks are rocks that have tumbled down river far enough to be made round. Not rocks soaking in water.

If you can get volcanic rocks they are way more efficient. Ive had 'river rocks' that havent been immersed for centuries explode. i still use them though if I cant find volcanics.

 

[DOC-CANADA]

I'm curious! what do you make a fire ring out of, if your affraid of exploding rocks?

Your comment struck me as funny, because nearly every traditional sauna and sweat lodge uses heated rocks for the heat source. I guess you have never seen them. River rocks are rocks that have tumbled down river far enough to be made round. Not rocks soaking in water.

I have used hot rocks to boil water in a container. The point is that some rocks removed from a body of water and then heated, can and do explode.

I have never heard the term 'river rocks' used in the fashion you describe.

Doc

 

[LMT66]

Great responses and many great ideas I have taken note of. In short time, with the helpful input W&SS has provided, we'll figure out how to fine tune it for optimum efficiency and performance.
After a little use and a lot of work, I've learned that it wasn't the best type of shelter for the intended purpose. With experience comes wisdom, right?

Will keep you posted on changes made and how they worked.


The rocks around the pit were taken from a small runoff creek that is dry most of the year and also a few we found just laying around the shelter area. They were left inside the shelter to dry out for about a month before use. A couple did explode while the fire was going. One actually kicked a piece of wood out of the pit.
Be careful with rocks!

 

[DOC-CANADA]

The rocks around the pit were taken from a small runoff creek that is dry most of the year and also a few we found just laying around the shelter area. They were left inside the shelter to dry out for about a month before use. A couple did explode while the fire was going. One actually kicked a piece of wood out of the pit.
Be careful with rocks!

The above is a good example of what I was referring to. I've had similar things happen, though with no serious consequences.

A quote from Jim Riggs, "Never use the rounded, stream-worn cobbles so common along watercourses-they frequently retain water which, when heated in a fire, expands more rapidly than the rock does and thus explodes, sending potentially lethal chips flying in all directions."

Doc

 

[cody1]

I have used hot rocks to boil water in a container. The point is that some rocks removed from a body of water and then heated, can and do explode.

I have never heard the term 'river rocks' used in the fashion you describe.

Doc

I hear ya fellas. Limestone and most sedimentary rocks are the ones to really watch. If all rocks exploded easily and in a violent way, there would be a whole lot of dead people from camp fires. Usually they just make a little pop and break in half. If you go to a landscaping supply yard and ask for river rocks, they will take you to a pile of round rocks. Not rocks in water. Sorry, I thought that was a fairly common term.
The reason I made the suggestion of the rocks was because the shelter is not a tipi, but shaped like a sweat lodge. Unless you keep all the wood inside the tipi with you, you will need to leave the shelter. Sweat lodges get quite warm and stay that way pretty well. If you want a tipi type shelter and firepit, than the shelter needs to be rebuilt.
You could also build a radiant heat wall. Then the fire could be outside and still heat the shelter. How much heat do you need in there. In the winter a candle lantern heats my tent plenty. If the top doesn't have a heat releasing hole in it, it will stay pretty good in there with just your body heat.. There are options other than a fire in the shelter, but you can't turn a wigam into a tipi, they are different shapes for a reason.

 

[Battle Creek Knives]

It took me dang near 2 hours to get a fire going. I was down to micro-sticks and had a flame about 1cm tall that i slowly coaxed to stay lit.
Also, as I've said before, toss the Bic and buy a generic gas station lighter. These no-name lighters are adjustable and are like flame throwers on high. A Bic only provides a 1/2" flame in good conditions and there is no adjustment under the silver band up top.

I feel for ya on the fire, nothing more frustrating especially when its that cold outside, now compound that feeling and lets say you weren't clothed for the weather..

Good point on the Bic, IIRC it used to be if you remove that metal band on the lighter it gives you more flame, much more.. of course I may be entirely wrong as I haven't smoked in years but that's what I used to do to get the last of the fuel/efficiency out of it..

I think your shelter is great and has inspired me to build one that can contain a fire inside, I've never done one before and need to try...

Thanks for the post, lots of good info here guys..

Cody: I know exactly what rocks you're talking about and that's the only term I've ever known for them.. at least in Calif..

 

[DOC-CANADA]

I hear ya fellas. Limestone and most sedimentary rocks are the ones to really watch. If all rocks exploded easily and in a violent way, there would be a whole lot of dead people from camp fires. Usually they just make a little pop and break in half. If you go to a landscaping supply yard and ask for river rocks, they will take you to a pile of round rocks. Not rocks in water. Sorry, I thought that was a fairly common term.
The reason I made the suggestion of the rocks was because the shelter is not a tipi, but shaped like a sweat lodge. Unless you keep all the wood inside the tipi with you, you will need to leave the shelter. Sweat lodges get quite warm and stay that way pretty well. If you want a tipi type shelter and firepit, than the shelter needs to be rebuilt.
You could also build a radiant heat wall. Then the fire could be outside and still heat the shelter. How much heat do you need in there. In the winter a candle lantern heats my tent plenty. If the top doesn't have a heat releasing hole in it, it will stay pretty good in there with just your body heat.. There are options other than a fire in the shelter, but you can't turn a wigam into a tipi, they are different shapes for a reason.

It's a good point you made about the different shapes, tipi vs wigwam. I've never made that shape shelter but I can see how the smoke and fire could be a problem, due to the low profile of the latter.

OTOH, I have built tipi wannabes and have benefited from having a fire inside.

For example:

BTW, this is what I was referring to about the chimney effect and the frost liner:

Doc

 

[Dinkum]

Great post and great effort by the OP. Its just important to have a 'learning experience' as a 'win'

What did Eddison say about his hundreds of attempts to get a light bulb to work as desired? Something about it not being a failure, but understanding how not to do it

Mate, you are out there getting freezing fingers and building shelters, it's a lot more than most do, even if they are interested in this 'field' good on ya!

 

[LMT66]

I tried some venting today. I used some branches between the upper and lower tarps to give the tipi-liner effect but the result was still about the same. Smoke level still about waist high. I'll try a few more things that were suggested here before I give up and go with what I have.

Had my firekit today and did the One-stick fire method with success. Real humid today with higher temps (40F) but the tinder and firesteel worked with 3 strikes. :thumbup:

I used the rock that exploded last time out. It was nice and flat. Shaved fatwood and waxed jute then tiny strips of oak.

Turley Soldier River tagged along today.