First knife attempt (question)

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Jonny, I appreciate your feedback. Your knives are an inspiration and something to strive for as I learn.

I decided to skip the jimping on this knife. It's my first attempt and quite small and honestly, I don't have the cash for the checkering file. Once things improve and I can afford some equipment, I'll try it then. This entire thing has been done with a hacksaw, a file and sandpaper. It turned out okay, it can only get better. I have some brass for the pins and lanyard hole along with some brass for the liners along with the bone.

I sent it off for heat treatment today.

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Very cool:thumbup: Who did you end up using for heat treat? I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out after you get it back. Be sure to give us some updates here.

By the way, you never answered how you dyed your bone scales.........don't hold back now!
 
I used Peters as you suggested.

With regard to the bone, I just researched this site. There is some great information on here. I'm not exactly following the process as it's written. We'll see how it turns out. This is what I am doing.

I soaked it in gas for 5 days. Checked to see that it was translucent and even while holding it to the light.
(This is funny) I was supposed to go into Lemon Oil, but I screwed up and went into pure Lemon Juice.
I then placed it into Oil Leather Dye (Light Brown) only for two hours as I wanted didn't want the color very deep. I was mostly looking for some movement.
I let it dry for for a couple of days and cut and sanded the scales a little closer to size.
Now I'm going to go into the Lemon Oil for a couple of hours.
Then I'm going to go into Mahogany Leather Oil dye for 5 days.
Then back into the Lemon Oil and let it dry for a few days.
 
It's weird, but I often seem to stumble across a thread where someone is cutting their teeth on their first knife right about the time I'm hitting a wall of some kind in the shop and it always reinvigorates me via the memories of why I decided to do this for a living.

Thanks so much for sharing your adventure with us, especially accompanied by the great photo-documentation.

First off, are you having a blast? Can you hardly wait 'til that blade comes back from Peters? Are you already thinking about your next 3 knives? Chances are you've been bitten sir!:D

You show a whole lot of natural ability and common sense, not only in your actions and what you've turned out thus far, but in the questions you ask. I think the lines of that knife you have out for HT are pretty sweet.

You've already been given a ton of great advice and input. All I can add is this:

There is rarely such thing as a "Scrap Knife", there are just smaller knives.;) If you stick around, you'll read that bit of advice thrown around quite often, and for good reason.

If I were you, I'd revisit that pattern you decided to scrap because the lines weren't "speaking" to you at the moment. I don't know how deeply you filed with that rat tail, but if there's enough thickness left in the spine when you file out the flats, you could still salvage that blank. I'd say there's a pretty sweet little neck knife living inside that "scrapped" blank.

I realize you stated that you're a fan of the convex grind, but are you familiar with draw filing? If not, check out this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw

Even if you want your final profile to be convex, draw filing is a great way to remove a whole lot of material really fast and accurately if you're working without a belt grinder, or a really long blade/sword.

In the video it's being demonstrated on the flats of an octagonal rifle barrel, but all the important aspects involved are highlighted and directly transferable to the flat of a knife bevel. Best of all, the materials needed are all available at your corner hardware store.

Anyway, just wanted to pass on the kindness I've received here by welcoming you to the knifemaker brotherhood and give you a little virtual "atta boy" on your progress thus far.:thumbup:

I'm far from knowing it all, but if I can help in any way, let me know,

Taylor
 
Best new guy thread I have ever read. Nice knife design, well thought out question and you done your resarch. I am realy looking forward to the finished knife.
 
I appreciate the comments.

It's interesting how low times in your life can open up new possibilities. I've always been attracted to knives and the skills possessed by the makers. A custom knife is so much more than just manipulated steel and scales. They tell a story. How a common tool can differ so much in artistry and personality from maker to maker, from individual to individual. It's a fascinating skill that I've always been too busy to try.

I've been a real estate developer for what feels like my entire life. I was VP for a big residential home builder in Vegas. In 2005 we were really smart and foresaw the housing collapse that was about to hit Vegas. The company was sold and we moved to Seattle. Unfortunately all those smarts were left in Vegas. I lost everything I made in Vegas here in Seattle trying to develop commercial real estate. So now, unemployed and in a very difficult position I needed something to do. A project to occupy my mind. Tired of building bird houses for the wife, I spent a few weeks in this forum reading the stickies.

I started out wanting to do everything myself. To the point I was out digging for old brake drums for a forge. The more I read in here the more I realized I didn't want to screw around with the heat treating. So I sent it out. I have an uncle about 6 hours away who is going to assist me in building a propane style forge. Once I get into a more stable position and there is a such thing as disposable income, I plan on heading over and getting it built.

I go back and forth on this little knife. I don't even have it back and it's gone from being proud of it to being embarrassed of it. I really want to learn the craft. To understand the art of it. To be able to hand forge a block of steel into a work of art. I kind of feel like I've cheated the professionals by simple material removal. The idea however was to learn the basics and to that extent its doing as planned.

The bone however has been a completely different story. The more I read and learn the less I feel that I know. This is something I am going to continue to experiment with.

I really have a pretty clear vision for what I would like to be able to create one day. I want to be able to produce a true hand forged knife. Very rustic in appearance with forge marks and patina combined with modern and natural materials, like mircata combined with natural bone scales.

So now I have a nice little list of things I would like to find, make, buy and learn. I have some good people giving me suggestions and this place to find additional information. I ordered the book Knife Making, Step by Step, so hopefully that gets here soon. And in the meantime I'm going to keep trying. Doing what I can do with a vice, hacksaw, and a file.

Michael
 
Michael,

Sorry to hear about the lean times, but I'm glad that it ultimately led you to try your hand at something with which you obviously have natural potential.

I'll be looking forward to seeing what comes of this one after it gets back home from HT, so keep us posted on the progress.

I don't know if you read what I posted earlier about salvaging that "scrapped" knife you showed us before you got tired of reading my ramblings, but I'd still be interested in hearing how much thickness is left under those rat tail file grooves. Could be your next knife is living in there somewhere.;)

Taylor
 
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Taylor, I read everything and watched the video you linked on draw filing. If someone is going to take the time to pass along information, I'm going to absorb as much of it as I can.

I looked at that first attempt last night. I don't have any calipers or anything to get a true measurement, but to the eye it appears there would be enough to shave it down and create a real lean slicer. I'm going to give it a try. It's not like I can screw it up any worse that it is.
 
They're totally below centerline. That's one of the things that's driving me crazy, as I did it on purpose. I was really looking for a rough and rustic looking knife at completion so I thought i'd just kind of throw the pins in there and not measure. Use the lack of placement as a means to assist in the overall look of the knife. Yeah, fail.
 
think your first knife.is working out great. i remember my first knife. no info like today.my name is gene hagen.ive been making knives for about 19 years .looking for some new friends.
 
MHill said:
Taylor, I read everything and watched the video you linked on draw filing. If someone is going to take the time to pass along information, I'm going to absorb as much of it as I can.

I looked at that first attempt last night. I don't have any calipers or anything to get a true measurement, but to the eye it appears there would be enough to shave it down and create a real lean slicer. I'm going to give it a try. It's not like I can screw it up any worse that it is.
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Good deal. Until you get yourself setup with a grinder, draw filing will be your best friend when it comes to removing copious amounts of metal accurately.

The one thing I forgot the video didn't cover, since it was demo'd on a octagonal rifle barrel, is that you need to support the length of the blade and especially the tip with a extremely rigid backing. A piece of 1x2 oak or a 2x4 clamped to your workbench at 90 degrees to the edge, pointing out, makes for a good work surface for you to clamp your blade to.

If your blade has any distal taper to it, then you'll need to shim the tip with a wedge of wood or something similar. Otherwise, the blade will flex and you'll end up with the middle dished out. Also, make sure you stop before running the file off the end, or you'll round the tip off.

Oh yeah, almost forgot. If you want to remedy the holes being off center you could either weld, or JB Weld the hole nearest the ricasso and drill it out on the centerline for a smaller diameter pin, leave the middle one alone and just let it be covered by the scales and use a piece of tubing in the rear one to do double duty as a pin and a thong hole.

Or you could just let it ride and let it be your first knife, with all the learning experience showing to remind you of your journey.:thumbup:

Well, it sounds to me like you've got a slicer to excavate from that blank we're talking about and I have to get out to the shop, so get to it and just remember two things: have fun & if there aren't any pictures, it didn't happen.:D

Take care Mike & if you have questions, holler,

Taylor
 
My blade is at Peter's waiting to be heat treated so I played around some with the bone scales. Other than the jigging, which I had no clue how to do, I'm pleased with the color. I didn't want a deep uniform color through the bone, but something that appeared more weathered and rustic. I like how it looks.

I got some 5160 in today along with some Ivory and Green canvas Micarta. Rather than try and learn how to do a knife and bone at at the same time. I'm just going to play around with some micarta and see how that goes.

I can't get my camera to pick up the grain like lines in the bone, but I really like it. It should look nice with the brass liner material and brass pins.

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I cut out a new blank today, trying to learn, practicing. One thing became evident very fast. I should have stuck with 3/16". This is 1/4" 5160 and way too thick for my little homemade file jig. This is going to take awhile.
 
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Very cool and simple jig. I am just about to make my first knife and that is going to be really helpful. Hopefully I will have a thread like this soon.
 
Hopefully I'm not totally annoying you guys by bring this back up over and over again. I'm no knife maker. Just trying to have some fun and hopefully get some direction when I'm totally screwing up. It still blows my mind how generous this forum is with information.

This 1/4" stuff is just way too thick for a file and a sanding block. My ADD keeps flaring up. It's slow but it is coming along. I'm not 100% sure on how to remove material, so it's kind of just going by feel. At this point I think I would rather punch myself in the face over and over than go pull that file over this 1/4" boat-anchor.

I really wanted to try this because I would love nothing more than to make my own skinner. I've been playing around with a design and I like the way it feels to this point. It has a handle large enough to get a full 4 finger grip, yet still feels small enough for more detailed work.

If you have a minute, maybe you can comment and give me some feedback?

I really appreciate it.

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MHill said:
Hopefully I'm not totally annoying you guys by bring this back up over and over again.
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Heck no, it's fun. Especially when someone actually pays attention and asks smart questions :)

About the 1/4" blade... hang in there. You try draw-filing yet? I think it's faster, and easier to keep flats flat. If you want it convex it just go close to final by draw-filing then blend your convex.

I like the skinner. Nice belly and not too much blade.

1/8" stock is appropriate for a knife that size and of course a lot easier to file. Bring the grind up high like in your drawing and you'll have a nice keen bevel with a thin edge. :thumbup:

I would use one pin and the thong tube on the back half, 5 pins/tubes looks a bit busy. I'd keep both on the front bolster.

Not sure about the half-choil but if it's comfortable for you, go for it.

Two-piece scales is a bold step. Completely finish one with single scales just to get a feel for it first.

When you get to laying out the scales, work from the butt joint, out towards both ends.

Drill your tang the way you want. Next measure and drill both front bolsters, leaving extra material at the front of each scale piece. Now put them on with pins but no epoxy, and clamp one back piece tight to its mate before drilling one side, then do the other side. Then you can mark the "bolsters", shape and finish the fronts. (it's a real drag trying to finish the fronts after they're mounted ;))

Epoxy and pin the whole thing together, get a little epoxy in that butt joint too, even if it seems like it will squeeze out it can't hurt. Now file/sand all around the tang once it cures up.

Whew that was wordy! Hope it helps.
 
James, I appreciate everything.

I'm not completely sure I understand draw filing at this point. Taylor also suggested that I draw file and I thought I understood it, but I think what I'm actually doing is just pulling the file towards me. I'm still not completely sure how to draw file a knife. Would I hold the file and both hands and place the file at the plunge line and draw it to the tip?

I agree on eliminating a pin.

I didn't have a choil at all in the beginning but I wanted to be able to get closer up on the blade. I liked the transition from the blade to the handle and the only way it really worked was to do that half looking choil. At first I thought it was going to be ridiculous, but when I cut it out, it was actually very comfortable. I'll try it. Worse that can happen is that I end up with more practice.

I appreciate all the information on the two piece scales. I thought it would look really nice. I'm going to use a super thin ivory spacer, then the black canvas micarta cut to accept the white/black ebony.

I think it will be awhile before I attempt any more bone.
 
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