First knife completed, thoughts and a couple of questions

[Shaw Blades]

Some pictures first:

Triple checking everything

Hand sanding, taking shape

First coat of Enduro-var (4 more to go, after working up to a 4000 grit micromesh pad starting at cheap 60 grit aluminum oxide sandpaper)

Finished, needs final edge work

Messed up pretty noticeably on this side, trying to clean up on the belts after heat treat

View of handle contours, some greenish tone came out in the dark spots of the lignum vitae on this, I really could have done without that happening

My humble shop (garage)

Last month I met with a local maker named Tobin Smith. Here is showing me the basics to heat treating. We spent a lot of time in his shop too and he gave me LOTS of good tips, the wood I used for this knife handle, and a hardened file guide he made for my plunge lines. He is a great guy, he opened up his home to me and my lady and it was one of the best times I've ever had. He makes some of the best looking knives I've seen too.

Here is the biggest mistake in my opinion. I messed up when trying to put the first edge on here.

Some thoughts:

One of the hardest things for me was figuring out how to put an edge on a knife with no real bevel. I can sharpen very well using stones but sharpening on a moving belt is a totally different animal. I tried to match the angle on my spyderco pocket knife.

I don't know if this Enduro-Var is the best option for a knife handle. I went to a local woodworking shop and they recommended it to me. I don't have a buffer/polisher but using this stuff looks like it has been buffed and it feels great.

The lanyard tube was one of the most difficult things for me. It is actually only a friction fit on this knife (will not be in the future on anything I make). I sanded it down in the drill press over and over to thin it out because the 5/16 tubing wouldn't fit through the 5/16 hole. That was quite a pain and took a lot of time.

Using three corby bolts seems like overkill and a waste of material. Also it was hard trying to get all three to line up, should have put more time into measuring but next I will only use 2 for this size knife.

I noticed to get a truly comfortable handle and not a weird blocky feel you have to pay a lot of attention to the angle on the handle material that is near the spine. I spent a lot of time there with a file shaping it to feel more like a barrel like cylinder instead of a slightly rounded block.

Questions:

What is the trick to keeping your spines clean and smooth looking?

When you are grinding a scandi using an angle iron jig/clamp do you get the bevel in one pass or make several passes gradually bring it back to a line you mark? (This was actually a failed scandi, had to revise because the edge was too weak at this angle)

Should I try to find a bit that is just a smidge wider than the 5/16 for the lanyard tubing or ream it slightly out using a dremel?

I used the System Three T-88v Epoxy because I think I remember seeing bladsmith say he uses it. Do you guys actually measure the epoxy parts by weight or just squirt it in side by side and eyeball it?


Thanks for your opinion, suggestions and feedback!

 

[fast14riot]

Looks great! Your off to a fantastic start, especially with an experienced maker near by to help you out.

I will only take a stab at two of your questions...

To keep the spines looking clean and sharp, I use good hard sanding blocks. I have brass ones, aluminum, and will even tape some paper to my surface plate and put a machinists square ont it to make sure it stays flat. Even though I have a disc grinder I still do lots of hand sanding.

T88 is a very good epoxy! You should never have any issues using it. But do measure it properly! An old digital kitchen scale works well or depending on your math skills a balance beam works too. I use WestSystems 105/205 which I can get pre calibrated pumps for so I don't need to measure. I still do every once and a while to make sure they are close enough, and I am not wasting any. I buy mine by the gallon, but a quart kit is more than enough for quite a few knives.

Have fun with this hobby!


-Xander

 

[Shaw Blades]

Thanks for the tips

Looks great! Your off to a fantastic start, especially with an experienced maker near by to help you out.

I will only take a stab at two of your questions...

To keep the spines looking clean and sharp, I use good hard sanding blocks. I have brass ones, aluminum, and will even tape some paper to my surface plate and put a machinists square ont it to make sure it stays flat. Even though I have a disc grinder I still do lots of hand sanding.

T88 is a very good epoxy! You should never have any issues using it. But do measure it properly! An old digital kitchen scale works well or depending on your math skills a balance beam works too. I use WestSystems 105/205 which I can get pre calibrated pumps for so I don't need to measure. I still do every once and a while to make sure they are close enough, and I am not wasting any. I buy mine by the gallon, but a quart kit is more than enough for quite a few knives.

Have fun with this hobby!


-Xander

 

[awestib]

I can't really help you at all since I am not a knife maker (I wish I was though). Anyway, interesting questions, particularly the one about the scandi grind. One thing I can say as a user and knife sharpener, it is unmeasurable important for me to have a flat scandi grind, as flat and even as possible!
I sure expect quite a few replies to you from all the great knife makers on this forum soon.

 

[Shaw Blades]

I can't really help you at all since I am not a knife maker (I wish I was though). Anyway, interesting questions, particularly the one about the scandi grind. One thing I can say as a user and knife sharpener, it is unmeasurable important for me to have a flat scandi grind, as flat and even as possible!
I sure expect quite a few replies to you from all the great knife makers on this forum soon.

Me too! I was refreshing this thread at work all day hoping some of the guys like Nick Wheeler and Rick Marchand would comment before it sinks to the depths of shop talk.

 

[jonnymac44]

Great looking first attempt. Really nice that you have Tobin Smith to help you out:thumbup:

As far as a bit for the lanyard tube, you can get bit in an amazing selection of widths at Enco online. Great industrial supplier, good prices, often free shipping. If the tubing is only slightly larger than your 5/16" bit, you can do a pretty good job of getting the hole big enough just by wrapping some 280 or 320 grit paper around a drill bit or rod that is smaller than the hole and sanding out the inside. You could use a dremel, but I'd prefer to do it by hand. A dremel could remove too much if you're not careful and you want a snug fit for tubes and pins, not a loose one.

Good job on your handle shaping. Many first knives, mine included, suffer from blocky handles. Mine were fairly thin so it didn't affect comfort too much, but with wood scales as thick as the ones you used, you need to get enough contour so the knife is comfy in the hand. Looks like you did a good job!

Have fun!

 

[lonepine]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the nature of a "scandi" grind such that it does not have a finishing secondary bevel to sharpen it? Thus the importance of a really, truly FLAT grind as awestib said?

- Paul Meske

 

[Shaw Blades]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the nature of a "scandi" grind such that it does not have a finishing secondary bevel to sharpen it? Thus the importance of a really, truly FLAT grind as awestib said?

- Paul Meske

That knife is not a scandi grind and I didn't claim it was. I wanted it to be but I changed it into a saber grind with a secondary bevel.

 

[Shaw Blades]

Great looking first attempt. Really nice that you have Tobin Smith to help you out:thumbup:

As far as a bit for the lanyard tube, you can get bit in an amazing selection of widths at Enco online. Great industrial supplier, good prices, often free shipping. If the tubing is only slightly larger than your 5/16" bit, you can do a pretty good job of getting the hole big enough just by wrapping some 280 or 320 grit paper around a drill bit or rod that is smaller than the hole and sanding out the inside. You could use a dremel, but I'd prefer to do it by hand. A dremel could remove too much if you're not careful and you want a snug fit for tubes and pins, not a loose one.

Good job on your handle shaping. Many first knives, mine included, suffer from blocky handles. Mine were fairly thin so it didn't affect comfort too much, but with wood scales as thick as the ones you used, you need to get enough contour so the knife is comfy in the hand. Looks like you did a good job!

Have fun!

JohnnyMac! Thanks man, means alot.

 

[tobinsmith]

Mitchell, you're coming along great. I could tell by your focus that you have a genuine interest in knife making, and I was happy to help. You're welcome here any time.

I didn't realize you had taken any pictures. Next time let me know so you can get my good side, soon as I get one

 

[chainring]

Looking good!!!! I'll give my .02 for your questions below...

Questions:

What is the trick to keeping your spines clean and smooth looking?

I dunno about everybody else, but I do my spines (and the entirety of the tang) on a 220 belt and small wheel attachment on the KMG. Then handle sanding tends to smooth the tang even more.

When you are grinding a scandi using an angle iron jig/clamp do you get the bevel in one pass or make several passes gradually bring it back to a line you mark? (This was actually a failed scandi, had to revise because the edge was too weak at this angle)

I use machinist's layout fluid (blue dye, spray can) to paint the edge of the blank all the way around, then I've got a little center scribing tool (usaknifemaker supply, etc.) that gives me a scribed line dead center of the blank, where my sharpened edge will be. Then I do slow, even passes on both sides to bring the scandi together at the same time. Leave some metal for heat treat/etching, then finish up with the same even passes on both sides. Bring it to a "wire edge with very gentle, light pressure passes at the end and slow grinder. Move the "wire" back and forth about twice, then strop on cardboard to remove the "wire." Again, I'm a noobie, too, so figure that into the equation.

Should I try to find a bit that is just a smidge wider than the 5/16 for the lanyard tubing or ream it slightly out using a dremel?

Find tubing that you can find a bit for! You don't want a glue line, so that hole needs to be perfect. I've found that I'm usually able to find a bit that works with anything - just get a test block of wood and drill holes with gradually larger bits until you find the right one for your tubing. Might be worth ordering some tubing through your local ACE Hardware.

I used the System Three T-88v Epoxy because I think I remember seeing bladsmith say he uses it. Do you guys actually measure the epoxy parts by weight or just squirt it in side by side and eyeball it?

I got a calibrated eyeball from my Dad. Long as nobody ever actually checks it, it's always accurate. I use 30 minute epoxy, but let it set up overnight. Flip a soda can over and mix it in the bottom for a good little mixing bowl of about the right size.

Nothing that I've mentioned is an innovation on my part, and I don't want it to sound that way. Everything I do was a tip from Andy Roy of Fiddleback Forge, Rick Marchand, Dylan Fletcher, etc. Just passing it along!

 

[Grayzer86]

Looks good man. I have that very same 4x36 delta belt/disc sander on my bench too. It was something my dad who is a journeyman carpenter bought but rarely used so he gave it to me. I also find it awesome that you are using what appears to be military surplus ammo boxes for quench tanks. I actually had that same idea when i started doing my own HT, and just bought some on Saturday for that very purpose.

 

[jonnymac44]

Hey Chain,
I've been liking what I've been seeing come out of your shop, but I have a question...

When I'm doing initial profiling I use my MAP arm and small wheel on my KMG as well, the 3/4" wheel to be exact. I go to 220 or so on the spine like you do, but with the small wheel it can be really tough to do it without very small ripples from the wheel along the spine. Have you noticed this at all? Once I grind my bevels and get my blades heat treated, I do all of my spine work by hand to avoid the ripples from the small wheel. I start with 100 grit and work my way down to 400 or 600 0r 800 depending on the knife.

If you're getting good smooth results with the small wheel on the spine, I'd love to hear your technique. I could be doing something differently. I can't get the best finish on the grinder. Are you using a larger wheel than me?

Looking good!!!! I'll give my .02 for your questions below...



Nothing that I've mentioned is an innovation on my part, and I don't want it to sound that way. Everything I do was a tip from Andy Roy of Fiddleback Forge, Rick Marchand, Dylan Fletcher, etc. Just passing it along!

 

[12345678910]

I like it, looks like a good start



I think your self criticisms are all right on,

I would go 1 corby less


http://www.generalfinishes.com/reta...anding-sealers/enduro-var-waterbased-urethane
Urethane finishes aren't suited for blades in my opinion.
I have a Buck vanguard and a Remington 700BDL with similar finishes.
The first nick, scratch, dent destroys that buffed glass hard finish.

I tend to prefer a nice rubbed oil finish, but that may just be my preference.

I have had Urethane finishes go milky / cloudy when exposed to moisture.
Have a test on scrap and see if that does it too.





5/16 = .3125

The drill size I would try is

Letter size “O” .316

it's .0035” larger.
It is literally a hair larger and should go in and epoxy in well.

Have you measured it?
Does it measure .3125?

Don't trust me, test on scrap




I like to measure epoxy, either with a syringe, or scale.

It's pretty incredible that digital kitchen scales with 1 gram increments are less than $20
If you look, you can probably find ones with .1 gram scales.

I find it's too easy to be off by 10% or so by eyeball and risk all that work if the epoxy won't cure properly.


use wax paper , or plastic on the scale though, too easy to goop it up.

 

[chainring]

Jonny, I'm not even in the same league as you, so you really ought to ask a better maker! I could clarify, though, that the spine (for me) is done mostly on a larger 4 or 10 inch wheel initially. The bottom of the handle, where it's too contoured to work with larger wheels, is done with the small wheel exclusively. I do my handle shaping on the KMG, so rough-in is with a big wheel to get angles, then pretty quickly it's the small wheel to create contours - and at that point I do touch up the tang all the way around with the small wheel. I go pretty light on the tang, though, and move fairly fast because I don't want to change the shape of the steel. I avoid the spine of the blade like the plague. I did have a ripple in the spine of one of my first knives, but I only noticed it at about 600 grit during the hand sanding stage and didn't make the connection to the small wheel. I actually went back to the small wheel and a fast dragging motion to FIX the ripple. Not had any problems with it since....but I've only got about 8 or 9 knives completed, so I'm not the best source of info!

 

[jonnymac44]

Thanks buddy!
The number of knives completed isn't relevant here. You have made knives, and nice ones at that, so I consider you a source for sharing information on technique or whatever. If I've learned anything making knives, it's that just about everyone you encounter can teach you something

Thanks for explaining your process:thumbup:

Jonny, I'm not even in the same league as you, so you really ought to ask a better maker! I could clarify, though, that the spine (for me) is done mostly on a larger 4 or 10 inch wheel initially. The bottom of the handle, where it's too contoured to work with larger wheels, is done with the small wheel exclusively. I do my handle shaping on the KMG, so rough-in is with a big wheel to get angles, then pretty quickly it's the small wheel to create contours - and at that point I do touch up the tang all the way around with the small wheel. I go pretty light on the tang, though, and move fairly fast because I don't want to change the shape of the steel. I avoid the spine of the blade like the plague. I did have a ripple in the spine of one of my first knives, but I only noticed it at about 600 grit during the hand sanding stage and didn't make the connection to the small wheel. I actually went back to the small wheel and a fast dragging motion to FIX the ripple. Not had any problems with it since....but I've only got about 8 or 9 knives completed, so I'm not the best source of info!

 

[Shaw Blades]

Thanks everyone. The surplus ammo cans are Tobin's setup. I said the same thing when I saw them.

 

[Remyrw]

For spines I use the regular platen, holding the spine in line with the belt and sort of rolling it up and down. I usually do this with the point up so I can see when it is about to come in contact with the belt, to avoid damaging it. Anyone looking at my knives can figure out what my smallest grinder mounted wheel is, so that's what is used on the lower part of the handle, then by hand like JM. A smooth and steady motion on the grinder helps, and I don't get ripples anymore unless I goof, but it's never perfect right off the grinder.
Since I'm doing final shaping of the handles after mounting I can do a full sweep from tip to butt along the spine down to whatever grit I want. The grinder platen also helps keep the metal flush with the handle material.

 

[Shaw Blades]

I like it, looks like a good start



I think your self criticisms are all right on,

I would go 1 corby less


http://www.generalfinishes.com/reta...anding-sealers/enduro-var-waterbased-urethane
Urethane finishes aren't suited for blades in my opinion.
I have a Buck vanguard and a Remington 700BDL with similar finishes.
The first nick, scratch, dent destroys that buffed glass hard finish.

I tend to prefer a nice rubbed oil finish, but that may just be my preference.

I have had Urethane finishes go milky / cloudy when exposed to moisture.
Have a test on scrap and see if that does it too.





5/16 = .3125

The drill size I would try is

Letter size “O” .316

it's .0035” larger.
It is literally a hair larger and should go in and epoxy in well.

Have you measured it?
Does it measure .3125?

Don't trust me, test on scrap




I like to measure epoxy, either with a syringe, or scale.

It's pretty incredible that digital kitchen scales with 1 gram increments are less than $20
If you look, you can probably find ones with .1 gram scales.

I find it's too easy to be off by 10% or so by eyeball and risk all that work if the epoxy won't cure properly.


use wax paper , or plastic on the scale though, too easy to goop it up.

I just ordered one of those bits, thank you.