First Knife Ever, feedback?

S

smartanimal

Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
58
Hello everyone! I've been getting some good info from this forum as far as making a knife and I've decided to start one with an old file. I realize that I'm committing serious noobery by leaving the handle section pretty much un touched although for this one i'm more focused on getting a grind that isn't super ugly and the blocky handle actually kind of fits the design. I shaped it and ground the rough bevel on my belt/disc sander at 80 grit, and am now hand sanding the bevel and edges at 100.

You can see i got overzealous grinding the bevel and so there's no real visible ricasso to speak of, a detail for the next knife.

I'm patterning it off a puukko, the design of which i really like although I've never owned one. Planning on using this one as a bushcraft / camping knife.

hvqur5.jpg

nv1mac.jpg


I chose to do a chisel grind although I'm not sure if i'm going to sharpen it the flat stone way or the mousepad with sandpaper way, maybe you all can give me feedback to that effect. Probably going to cord wrap the handle on this one although I'd love to put scales on my next one.

Biggest gripes working with a file are although I love the file teeth as a design element, grinding them off on the flat side of the blade has proven to be a pain, will probably have to micro bevel the flat side since the teeth kind of make a weird corduroy pattern on the edge. I'm almost through getting it off but it's for sure a pain.

anyway, would welcome feedback! Thanks!
 
looks good for the first, now go and make ten more :-)
each one you learn more
 
Welcome to Bladeforums.
Fill out your profile with all the info ( age, location, occupation, hobbies, etc.) so we know a bit about you. It may also allow another maker near you to offer some help.
Seeing the sandpaper is marked in French, I'm guessing you are not a USA resident.



More of a KSO ( knife shaped object) than a puukko, but it is a start.

Questions:
Have you tempered the file already? If not, bake in the oven for 1 hour at 400F, take out and rinse in running water to cool off, put back in the oven and bake for a second hour. This will temper the file to bring it to the proper hardness for a knife and make it less brittle.
When grinding the file, have you kept it cool by dipping in water regularly. If the edge turns blue while grinding, it may have softened the edge.

Suggestions:
Try and make all bevels straight and flat. Use a hard block of wood or metal to back the sandpaper.
The sandpaper in the photo is the wrong type. You want metal working paper like the 3M silicon carbide "Wet-or-Dry" type.
A knife like that looks good with a cord wrapped handle.
The stickies has a section on making a file knife.
 
OK! You will find that each knife you make gets better. Good start! And +1 on "make 10 more".
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Welcome to Bladeforums.
Fill out your profile with all the info ( age, location, occupation, hobbies, etc.) so we know a bit about you. It may also allow another maker near you to offer some help.
Seeing the sandpaper is marked in French, I'm guessing you are not a USA resident.



More of a KSO ( knife shaped object) than a puukko, but it is a start.

Questions:
Have you tempered the file already? If not, bake in the oven for 1 hour at 400F, take out and rinse in running water to cool off, put back in the oven and bake for a second hour. This will temper the file to bring it to the proper hardness for a knife and make it less brittle.
When grinding the file, have you kept it cool by dipping in water regularly. If the edge turns blue while grinding, it may have softened the edge.

Suggestions:
Try and make all bevels straight and flat. Use a hard block of wood or metal to back the sandpaper.
The sandpaper in the photo is the wrong type. You want metal working paper like the 3M silicon carbide "Wet-or-Dry" type.
A knife like that looks good with a cord wrapped handle.
The stickies has a section on making a file knife.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for your feedback. I'm actually from San Diego, CA. Not sure how I got a hold of french paper. I have a little experience working copper and stainless but I've never worked anything thicker than 1/16"

So I haven't tempered it yet, still sanding the bevel. I've been wrapping the paper around a file and doing it that way. Also been having issues with keeping at least a millimeter of stock on the edge for heat treating, maybe I'm sanding too steep?

Any suggestions for bringing out more "puukko-ness" and less KSO? It's nowhere near done so I still have time to whip this thing into something presentable. Or at least something I can be proud of. Maybe some more work on the handle?

Thanks again for your feedback, it helps immensely.
 
Before you sand any more do the double temper I described. that will make sanding and grinding easier and better.

To make it more puukko looking would require a puukko style handle...which would require a lot of change to the tang of your blade. You could glue on wood scales, shape to a puukko shape, and then cord wrap over them to get a field use look. That might give you some of what you want. Be sure to allow for the cord thickness when shaping the handle and tang, or it will end up way too fat.

The best idea would be to go visit a near by maker and have him grind shoulders and narrow the tang to allow for slipping on the bolster block, stacked leather washers, and butt block. This will allow a true puukko handle.
 
Will temper immediately.

One question, am I to understand that I should temper the blades pre-bevel grind next time?

On most of the file knife tutorials (as i understand it) it goes anneal, shape / grind, oil quench, temper, sand (clean), finish grind and sharpen.

From what I gather, oil quenching is not necessary for my project. Is it based on the size? the steel? I don't know the steel of the nicholson file i have, i've heard anything from W1 to 1095.

Just trying to nail down a repeatable process so I can focus more on building the motor skills for bevel grinding by hand.

In regards to the handle, I see your point about cord vs wood. I think I'll just cord wrap this one so most of the focus can be on the blade. Next knife i might just shape the handle with a swell on top and bottom and wrap it with with leather or something to evoke the feeling. From lurking around on the forums here it seems like I should really focus most of my efforts on getting a nice bevel.

What's your opinion on my grind choice (chisel)? I figured since it would be an outdoors camping / fishing / backpacking knife, it would be cool to be able to sharpen it a little quicker.

anyway, I know that's a lot of questions. I really appreciate your guys' help and suggestions.

I'll be sure to upload progress pictures.
 
Maybe I misunderstood. I thought you said the file was still hardened? If you annealed it, follow the instructions in the tutorials.

If the file is being ground in the hardened state, you have two issues:
1) It will be very hard to sand and grind. Tis will lead to sloppy grinds and bevels and the tendency to leave behind scratches.
2) Any grinding operations will build up more heat, and this may damage the edge.

By tempering the file/blade first ( or now) you will be working on a Rockwell 59 blade instead of a Rockwell 64 blade. That will be much easier to sand and grind, and you will get better results.


A chisel grind is not easier to maintain. If anything, it is harder to sharpen up well. Generally, a chisel grind requires good quality set of water stones that are properly maintained and flat. Done wrong, the bevels can become a mess of scratches. In a chisel grind you have a flat back ( sometimes slightly hollow ground) and a front bevel. In many cases of thin edge slicers ( sashimi blade) the edge meets the back with no secondary. However, on a more robust use knife like yours, a small secondary is a good idea. The secondary should be about 25-30°. In sharpening, you only sharpen the secondary, but you have to remove the wire and finish the edge by flat honing the back.

A puukko is traditionally done with a Scandinavian grind ( AKA - Scandi). This is a grind where the bevels go part way up each side at equal angles ( usually 11° to 15° per side) and there is no secondary bevel. The edge is formed by the apex where the two bevels meet ( called a zero edge). Most folks add a small secondary, as maintaining a true scandi is a bit tricky.
 
ah yes, to clarify,
I annealed first then did the rough shaping and an initial crappy bevel on my belt sander and have since been sanding the rest of the bevel.
I'll also definitely get started on putting a secondary bevel on it.

apologies for being dense, so in light of the fact that I did anneal, should I still temper before continuing to sand? And should I quench at all?

That should be enough information for me to stop asking questions and keep working! haha..
 
No need to temper an annealed blade blank. Tempering is done after hardening.

How did you anneal the file....and how are you planning on hardening it?
 
Stacey if you temper a hardened file to make grinding and sanding easier would you do another temper post grinding.
 
I annealed the file in a charcoal / wood fire in my backyard chimney until glowing red, then put it in a bucket of sand to cool. I was going to harden it based on a tutorial that said bring it back up to a cherry red in a charcoal fire then quench in oil (was going to use canola) then I was going to temper them in my toaster oven.

I need to go get more wet / dry sand paper so in the mean time I brought the file back out to flatten the grind a little by hand and I like the results I got so far (better ricasso, grind goes a little higher on blade:
b4ssvm.jpg


Going to go back to 100 grit wet / dry and bring it to about 400 before the hardening / tempering process.

Also wrapped cord around it just for fun to see how it felt in hand and i'm glad i did because it's SUPER uncomfortable.
erbll5.jpg


i think im going to grind some curvature where the index finger goes to get a better grip. As is, it's not at all something i would want to reach for constantly and use.

Here's the thing though, after filing, i have a sharp edge. not a paper cutting edge but one that seems very thin to be hardening without the edge warping. should i grind the edge back until it's like 1mm thick?
 
Looking better!

The sharp edge needs to be dulled back before HT. It should be about .030" thick. A tad thinner will work, .020", but you may have some edge "bacon curl".
 
Still working to finish this knife. I shaped it and another blank to their final forms and tried quenching and tempering. I messed up the tempering as far as I can tell. The edge is dark blue and the rest is dark straw colored. Can I re-harden and try again or is it stuck this way? Should I just get it professionally done at this point? One of the blanks has a pretty thin edge so I'm not sure if my charcoal chimney and oven can be precise enough. Also FYI I quenched in canola oil.

I'll upload a picture as soon as I can.
 
I really like it! When I saw it, I thought of it as a little scalpel. I would totally keep something like that in the toolbox for leatherwork or wood carving. Personally, I'd ditch the paracord. I like the character that the file markings and manufacturing stamp gives it. I have a similar knife that I use that says "Flat Bastard" on it. Pretty rock n roll.
 
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