First knife need help

G

Glock&Surefire

Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
103
Hi Guys,
I am working on my first knife and the blade has been ground it came out as good as I could hope for, for my first knife.

I am ready to drill the holes for the handle and then I need to heat treat it.
The blade is CPM 154CM yes, I know it's really expensive for my first knife, but it made me pay attention that much more.

My question is after I drill my handle holes how do I heat treat the blade? Can I use my two propane torches or an acetalene (sp) torch to heat it up to non-magnetic and then quench in oil?

I don't really want to ship it off to have it done and an oven is not possible for me to buy right now.
Thanks guys!
 
CPM 154 needs to be done in a controlled oven. I suggest sending it off. Texas Knifemaker's Supply or Paul Bos can do the job.
 
There is also Peter's heat treat. That steel is better done in a controlled oven. You will not get good results from what I hear using torches.
 
Peters' will properly heat treat it for you. Here is their procedure....

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Our standard cycle is as follows: harden @ 1950F , soak at temp. for 30 minutes, quench w/ N2 down to room temp. We then go straight to the cryo w/ most orders( very delicate jobs may get a 300F temper prior to cryo), -300F/ 4hrs. The parts are allowed to return naturally to room temp., then we begin the tempering process. For ATS/154 this is 980-1020F for 2hrs. @ temp. X2 or maybe X3.
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CPM154 is a highly-respected steel. The alloy content means it requires controlled conditions to HT properly. As the others said, let the pros handle the HT, to get the best performance. I think you'll be glad you did. If you keep making more, you may want your own kiln eventually.
 
Glock&Surefire said:
I am ready to drill the holes for the handle and then I need to heat treat it.
The blade is CPM 154CM yes, I know it's really expensive for my first knife, but it made me pay attention that much more.
Click to expand...

You didn't skimp on the steel and the attention you paid making it, Don't skimp on the Heat Treat.

Stan
 
I agree with the rest - send this one off to some place with good ovens. Then, get some 5160 if you want to learn to heat treat at home with a torch or forge.

Good luck,
Jacque
 
I will send it out. Thanks guys. I should have bought cheaper steel and I will. A lot of it, to continue making knives. Once I get better I will try CPM 154 CM again as it was very workable in my opinion. I would post a pic but no camera yet.
 
Well I did a HT on the knife myself, because I didn't want to send the first one out.
I did it the same way greenpete does his file knives. I know it would have been much better to send it away, but I'm not too worried about performance since I will most likely not use the knife much at all, and it will be put away as my first knife.
I heated the blade in a roaring fire for about 45 minutes solid. Then I quenched it straight down in brine.(boiled water with mortons salt added) Now it's in the freezer for about 3-4 hours (redneck cryo) per Petes HT.
After I pull it out then I will put it in the oven at 450 for two hours X2. I know I definetly hardened the blade in the fire at least some because it sounds like it's as hard as glass when I lay it down on the granite countertops in the kitchen. My friend has a RC tester but he lives in Ca and I in Fl. One day I will test it when I visit him next time,
Then I will dig up this tread and post the hardness obtained -Glock
 
You guys are right (of course) the file bit into the edge and the spine in two different places. Does it not harden in brine, only oil?
 
i'm not busting your chops but i got to ask.

you got a great piece of steel, you asked questions and got great answers.

WHY DIDNT YOU LISTEN!!!!!

good luck

jake
 
haha... I listened sometimes I just gotta do it my way. Plus the hike in the state forest to get to the primitive camping area was great, the trail was flooded so I got to use my patrol machete to clear the way. None is lost where there is a will there is a way, even if I have to buy an oven after all.
 
Let me explain the why's a bit. I appreciate that you wanted to do it yourself and all that. But, your steel has a lot of chrome and other alloys. These change the temperature you need to get the steel to and act kind of like road blocks for the carbon. The steel needs the time at the temperature so that the carbon can get to where it needs to be. If the carbon doesn't make it into solution it will not harden. Also if you get the steel too hot it will cause the grain size to increase making it very brittle no matter how you temper it. That is why the high alloy steels need a controlled oven. Also you probably never got close to 1950 without some kind of forced air supply to your roaring fire. Another thing is at 1950 you need to protect the steel from the Oxygen in the atmosphere or it will do some funky stuff to your steel.

If you want to do your own heat treat on a blade get some 1080. It has minimal alloy and near the perfect amount of carbon. If you heat it till table salt melts on it and then quench it in Canola oil (Parks 50 would be better) then tempered it in an oven at 425 for 2 hours and then cooled and repeated the 2hour temper at 425 it would be a vastly superior knife to your home treated cpm 154. It does not matter how great the steel is if the heat treat is not done to match the steel. CRITICAL part of the job. As some one once said" If God sent down the perfect piece of steel it would make a poor knife if it wasn't heat treated correctly."
 
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Consider it a learning experience. Finish that knife and test the heck out of it. Don't turn your back on CPM154, just HT it right. :)

Get you a piece of 1084 or 1080. If you think CPM154 grinds nice... :) It's less expensive than the CPM series but it's not "cheap"; it's good stuff, just different.
 
I will get the 1080 thanks guys. As you can tell I really want to HT it myself. Does anyone have a good source for the 1080? I could google it but if you guys have a good source I will get it from there.
 
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