First knives then a few questions

G

Gtscotty

Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
74
First I'd like to say I think this is my first post here, but I've been lurking around here and trying to absorb some of the vast amount of knife making info for a while. That said, I have a few pics of the first knives I've made, and then some questions I had while making them below.

The first pic below is of a knife I finished from a blade blank.

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I made the sheath in the picture sort of by trial and error from leather I bought at a cobbler. One important lesson learned : If you are allergic to beef, shaping cow leather with a grinder is a really bad Idea.

The next pic is of the first knife I have made from the ground up. The blade was made from annealed 1095 bar stock, Which I hack-sawed/ground/filed to shape. I then Heat treated it in a chimenea, quenched in SAE 30 and tempered in the oven (400 degrees).

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Different perspective below.

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Finally, the two knives together....in finally-finished harmony.

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The handle material, bar stock, blade blank, and brass pins were all bought from Jantz. The wipe on polycoat came from wally-world ;) .

They look kinda shabby compared to most of yall's knives, but for my first attempt, I'm fairly happy with them.

Now for the questions:
1) How do yall keep the grind angle on your blade uniform, is it just tons of practice? If you use some kind of angle guide, I'd love to hear about it. I was kinda envisioning a large split dowel with a notch the appropriate distance from the belt to keep the angle constant.

2) Do yall have any pin hole drilling tips? I killed 3 drill bits trying to drill the handle after I had heat treated the blade and annealed the handle area. I'm sure It was soft enough, because with my dad's help I was finally able to get the holes cut.

3) Are there any woods that can be used for handles without stabilization? I recently found a forgotten cache of exotic hardwoods about the right size for scales at my parents house (Flooring sample kit). I seem to have momentarily lost the list of different woods I made, but I remember a few pretty dense ones like Jacoba, and Ebony. Also, Ive read the stabilizing how-to on this site, and was left kinda wondering where one could acquire a vacuum gun, or something else that could do the job of the air conditioner compressor in the tutorial.

Well I guess thats about it, sorry about the huge post, and thanks to everyone who posts here, I could not have even gotten started without all the wonderful info in this forum.
 
those came out pretty nice for your first knives, better than mine did.

over all most people keep grinds even with practice, some people sue jigs but after a while they just go to freehanding anyway

for drilling you can get harder bits (like carbide, but you can also have those break pretty easily), the best thing to do it keep the bit lubed and go slow

if you don't stabilize the wood you need to finish it with some sort of sealant (wax, oil, etc). to stabilize you self you can do it with a shop vac and vacuum container probably but there are places on line that will do it for you for a decent price. mhhhmmmmmmm ebony (i really like ebony just cause i played violin for so long and that wood is just so weird it doesnt seem like wood)

-matt
 
You're off to a good start.

The best way to drill your holes is before heat treat. The steel is softer that way.

Keep up the good work.

Gene
 
I'm still a newbie at knifemaking, but I have some experience with exotic woods.

Certain rosewoods, (dalbergia), work very well in wet environments. Cocobolo and African Blackwood are two notable examples. Other extremely dense woods are snakewood and lignum vitae, these woods will not absorb water. Snakewood should usually be sealed to prevent checking, however.

Ebony (diospyros), is usually very durable, and will work for handles depending on intended use. It is prone to eventual attack by saliva and other chemicals much more than, say, blackwood. You would have to treat it well and not put it in the dishwasher etc.

Other dense hardwoods, amboyna, pink ivory, ziricote, etc, will work without stabilization if you don't abuse them.

I finish most of my woodwork with a penetrating oil such as tung oil. This improves the appearance and durability of most woods.
 
I tried to use jigs and gave up. Too hard to set up and grind with. I think knifemaker who have a strong machining background know how to make jigs that are usable but mine were not worth the effort. The best think I did was buy some cheap steel and practice grinding. The low carbon content makes it worthless for a knife but for $1-2 you can get alot of grinding practice.

One suggestion is to use a marker or paint to color the blade when you are grinding. Mark or paint the blade, determine what you want to remove ( what part does not look like a knife), make a single stroke on the grinder, look and see how you did. If it looks like what you expected go again . if not markit........ Black majic marker works good and dries quickly.
 
You did your heat treat in your chimenea? What did you burn in there, and how hot do you think it got? How long did it take? Anybody else try that?

Thanks,
Larry
 
I used ebony on my last batch of knives and it turned out really nice. By the way, I think you did a fine job on you first knives.

Allen
 
I drill before grinding and heat treat. If you drill after grinding, you can run a higher risk of getting cut if the blade helicopters. If you drill after grinding, you should use a stop. It's going to be hard to get a dead soft tang after heat treating, unless you never get the tang hot to begin with. Better to just drill it and then through harden, imo.

Getting the grinds straight was (is) just practice for me. One thing you can do is figure out which is your weak grinding hand and always grind that side first. It's easier to match your grinds up if you do the harder side first.
 
Thanks for all the replies yall, as for drilling the handle, I'll probably just take your advice and drill bf the heat treat. By the way, I did have a stop for the blade when I drilled it this time.

I think I might go ahead and try to use the Ebony without stabilizing it. To shine up the dymondwood I used this time, I finished with a couple of coats of wipe on polycoat. Do you think that would seal a dense wood like ebony sufficiently, or would tung oil/some other oil be better?

I guess I just need some grinding practice, I'll get ahold of some cheap steel and give it a whirl sometime. I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't some easy guide tool that everyone but me was using. I drew an outline of the blade angle pattern I wanted on this knife, I just wasn't able to keep to the pattern so well. I had not thought of grinding with the weak hand first, but that makes a lot of sense, I will surely try it next time. When grinding, do most of you make one pass across the grinder with the blade, and then inspect?

The wood I used in the chimenea was just some old hardwood we had laying around for fires, not sure what kind. As for the process, I just got a good fire going, and let it burn mostly down to coals, then stuck wood around the edges of the inside of the chimenea. I used the center part which was all hot coals as the heating area for the blade. I'm not sure what temperature it got to, but the thing was pretty hot, I had to wear wet leather gloves to get anywhere near it. After the heating space was set up, I put the blade in and checked it often with an extend-o-magnet. When the blade went non-magnetic (it only took a few minutes), I pulled it out and dunked it in 30 weight motor oil. After the first time I did this, the file could still cut the blade, so I rinsed and repeated. The second time I left the blade in a minute or so after it got non magnetic before quenching it. I think this extra time, or the fact that the oil was now warm... or both, helped my cause, because when I took the blade out this time, the file just skated across it. I thought about trying to build a small forge to do all this in, but I'm currently in college and can only really work on this during the not so common times that I'm at home, so the chimenea will have to do for now.

mrnewberry - Out of curiosity, was the ebony you used for your knives stabilized?

I looked all around again for the wood list that I made, but it seems to have disappeared. I think lignum vitae and maybe snakewood were on there though. What is checking ? ( in terms of wood).

Again, thanks for the responses and advice, I think these tips will come in handy on the next build.

~Scott

p.S. - Speaking of the next build, I was thinking of trying a more stainless steel. I know I'll have to send it off to get heat treated, but are there any steels of this vane that might be more or less user friendly? I was kinda thinking D2, but am curious what more knowledgeable people than I have to say.
 
Pay close attention to what each individual movement does to your grind, pay attention to pressure and application of pressure in different directions and the effect it has on your grind lines. When you have all these little slight variations memorized try to do it fluidly.
Practice a lot, I remember being frustrated with grinding and I remember the first good one I did...
I almost screamed I was so happy !!!

Keep at it, looks like you are doing just fine.
 
You did a great job on those. Thanks for the info on the fire. I've been nervous about trying to do the HT myself. What kind of grinder do u have?
 
heads up, if you didnt know you need to wear organic gas filters with dymondwood (when working it) because it can release formaldehyde. you can get a good respirator for 35 bucks and the special filters for about 25-30. thats still a lot better than ending up in the hospital.

i know your paint of being a college student and not having access to stuff. im an art major and trying to go into metal working (find out in like 3 hours if i got into the department) but i cant use any of the huge metal shop or huge small scale working areas except for class work and they have everything (including a crucible, forge, multiple welders, buffing room, hammering room, huge soldering bench setups, etc)

o well, im going to be trying to do a bunch of knifes this sumer though

-matt
 
I'm curious what grit number belts yall use when grinding a blade. Also, does anyone use files for the finishing touches on a blade.

I was nervous about the whole HT thing and put it off for a while, but the 1095 seemed to be pretty forgiving of my mistakes.

The grinder I have is a small $100 Ryobi 4x36 from home depot. That was my Christmas present after I got interested in knife making. I know its not the recommended size but it seems to work well enough (aside from operator error) for my purposes.

As for the respirator, I knew a mask or something should be worn while sanding dymondwood, but I did not know a full blown respirator was needed. What brand respirator would yall suggest, and where might I be able to find one. I'm not sure what an organic gas filter is, but I guess they would sell those at the same place they sell respirators ? I don't think I'm going to use dymondwood for the next knife (im out), I was thinking about trying G10 and micarta in the future though, Is the same kind of respirator needed for working those. Good luck with getting into the metal working department, I bet that would be a pretty interesting course of study.

~Scott
 
the filters needed depend on what the resin used is and for the most part (At least for safety) all resins should be approached with as much caution as you can. i got mine from harbor freight, got it with filters (basic not acid gas) for the same price i would have payed for just the base of it. http://www.aearo.com/aosafety.com/d...5090, 95091&con_family_id=1&con_platform_id=1 is the one i have and it is very easy to use. i think i payed 35ish some places sell it for 35 w/o filters and then filters for i think 10-15 a piece.

and thank you for the good luck, i just heard back a few hours ago and i am in so shwing.

the best way to find out what you need protection wise is to read the MSDS of the resin which you should be able to find on line, if you dont know the resin used call/ email teh manufacture and see what they recommend for respirator protection and see if they will give you an MSDS for the resin and maybe what ever else is in the product and read through them.

if a company will not give you the info i personally would not work with them seeing as the MSDS and safety info should be public
-matt
 
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