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This sort of trolling is what ruined Bladeforums. So much sarcasm and personal attacks, so little discussion.
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First strider On it's way and question about the blade steel and the knife itself
- Thread starter Allen R.
- Start date
This sort of trolling is what ruined Bladeforums. So much sarcasm and personal attacks, so little discussion.
Who makes cpm-154cm never heard of such a steel
Was always under the impression that cpm is just another way to make 154cm steel. So cpm154cm would technically be correct?
John, I was joking and not trolling... lot's of people here do it. My intent wasn't to ruin or to further ruin bladeforums, and if I did either I am sorry to both the community and the site owner... Perhaps people who are quick to call someone a troll, which BTW is a personal attack, is what ruins a community...
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You'll have to understand the Strider fans here are a bit defensive. Posts about that brand tend to be sidetracked by detractors like me. I'm leaving this one alone.
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Allen, can you make any comparisons to any other steels? Better or worse? http://www.simplytoolsteel.com/Z-Wear-PM-tool-steel-data-sheet.html
Like Cruwear it seems to handle higher rc's than 3V. It really comes into it's own around rc 62. 3V does rc 58 best IMO, and gains little wear by going up to rc 60, while losing lots of toughness.
Zwear and cruwear just seem to do fine and have some advantages there. My Spyderco Cruwear mule at rc 62.5 is tough, and more wear resistant than S30V. * Note: Opinion, no real testing was done like Jim Ankerson's, or Hardhearts. I also like to run it a bit coarse ( no higher than #400 grit), around 35-40 degrees inclusive. It ( cruwear/vascowear) can do lower angles fairly easy. I really like the bite it develops
Joe
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I was kidding, people joke about the name of that steel all the time theres 154cm and then crucibles new version which is cpm-154
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154CM is a Crucible product. ATS34 is Hitachi, 14-4 CrMo is Latrobe, and others manufacture it as well.
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I know this they just improved the steel , 154cm was the original steel , then Crucible did their process to it , which made the carbides have a more uniform distribution, blah blah blah, end result CPM 154, I should of been more clear of that in the original post about it , I fixed it now though.
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What's funny is that the CM was for Climax Molybdenum, then Crucible acquired it. So maybe it could be Crucible Particle Metallurgy 154 Climax Molybdenum.
Haven't tried Z-Wear yet. I got a quote on PD #1 a couple of years ago, but at the time they only had thick billets I would have needed to EDM or roll down, which put it out of my cost range. But now there is also CPM Cruwear, so these 8% chromium steels are ramping up.
Haven't tried Z-Wear yet. I got a quote on PD #1 a couple of years ago, but at the time they only had thick billets I would have needed to EDM or roll down, which put it out of my cost range. But now there is also CPM Cruwear, so these 8% chromium steels are ramping up.
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Hardheart, Didn't know about the Powder Cruwear. Thanks. I'll look into it.
Does anyone have any idea what the hardness target is on the Z wear SNG's? Also, Are there more than custom and Starlinger SMF's in the steel? Thanks! My mind works faster than my bank account. I have too good taste in knives for a guy going through surgery after surgery on Disability.
I got to have some vices though. I gave up pretty much everything including drinking, smoking, gambling,and drugs.
Not married any more so by default I don't cheat.
Can't afford guns and ammo, so that leaves knives I guess.
Besides I am the Vascowear/Cruwear/mastiffwear guy and this is my steel powder version made in Europe or not.
With the Cruwear I prefer it run at rc 62-63 and it does very well at this hardness. It's more wear resistant than 3V from rc 60 on, and doesn't lose as much toughness as 3V does starting at rc 60 ( for 3V) Cruwear holds it to rc 62 IMO, but I don't have tests that back it up.
Carpenter rep. stated on Spyderco factory forum that:
I also haven't tried PD#1 ( powder steel vascowear/cruwear) yet but I'm very much looking for it. I have appx. 8 Vascowear and Cruwear knives currently so it's safe to say I enjoy this particular steel and can relate to CTS buying that many. When you find a knife that punches all the requirements on the ticket and it's a small run with a "boutique" steel get it while you can with extras. My opinion anyway. ( I recall getting 3 S90V PM2's when they came out. Only one left of those here now unfortunately but I also have the 20CP model too)
When one of you guys want to do some horsetrading or trading along with cash for these Z wear SNG's or SMF's ( non customs) please keep me in mind. The only other Strider I have is a 3V SMF GG but I'm not looking forward to getting rid of that.
Also, and opinions, bad or good along with anecdotes, please share with me.
Joe
Note: I'm still sitting on 3 440V PE Natives (NOS)
3 ZDP Caly Jr FRN's ( NOS)
lots of other stuff from my days as a dealer plus 40 years of collecting.
Does anyone have any idea what the hardness target is on the Z wear SNG's? Also, Are there more than custom and Starlinger SMF's in the steel? Thanks! My mind works faster than my bank account. I have too good taste in knives for a guy going through surgery after surgery on Disability.
I got to have some vices though. I gave up pretty much everything including drinking, smoking, gambling,and drugs.
Not married any more so by default I don't cheat. Can't afford guns and ammo, so that leaves knives I guess.
Besides I am the Vascowear/Cruwear/mastiffwear guy and this is my steel powder version made in Europe or not.
With the Cruwear I prefer it run at rc 62-63 and it does very well at this hardness. It's more wear resistant than 3V from rc 60 on, and doesn't lose as much toughness as 3V does starting at rc 60 ( for 3V) Cruwear holds it to rc 62 IMO, but I don't have tests that back it up.
Carpenter rep. stated on Spyderco factory forum that:
here:http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?59120-More-CTS-20CP/page3
I also haven't tried PD#1 ( powder steel vascowear/cruwear) yet but I'm very much looking for it. I have appx. 8 Vascowear and Cruwear knives currently so it's safe to say I enjoy this particular steel and can relate to CTS buying that many. When you find a knife that punches all the requirements on the ticket and it's a small run with a "boutique" steel get it while you can with extras. My opinion anyway. ( I recall getting 3 S90V PM2's when they came out. Only one left of those here now unfortunately but I also have the 20CP model too)
When one of you guys want to do some horsetrading or trading along with cash for these Z wear SNG's or SMF's ( non customs) please keep me in mind. The only other Strider I have is a 3V SMF GG but I'm not looking forward to getting rid of that.
Also, and opinions, bad or good along with anecdotes, please share with me.
Joe
Note: I'm still sitting on 3 440V PE Natives (NOS)
3 ZDP Caly Jr FRN's ( NOS)
lots of other stuff from my days as a dealer plus 40 years of collecting.
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NSM sent me a quote on it last year, too bad the domestic cutlery mfgr I tried to work with decided to stop answering emails and calls. I had 5 figures to invest on a slipjoint and 2 fixed blade patterns I wanted to do runs of, and then their sales lead disappeared. Don't worry, it was no business commonly discussed on BF, though they are known as an OEM
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I believe they are treated and hardened to 63RC.
I believe I read that somewhere.
Anyways, I am trading for one of these. Super excited about it.
I believe I read that somewhere.
Anyways, I am trading for one of these. Super excited about it.
Smileys and other diffusers go a long way when you mean to joke.
Noted, but perhaps lightning up a little would go further...
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I was sharpening up the new Z-wear Strider yesterday and I couldn't help but notice how easy it sharpens. I can really tell the difference between ingot and powder tool steels on the sharpening stones. It has a nice bite like Cruwear, but sharpens about like my Buck 110 CPM 154 ( I think Bos had those running around rc 60-61). It is cleaner with less burring as expected than the ingot steel.
Overall I'm very pleased by this SNG. The QC is excellent. No problems noted. I have a 3V SMF from the batch a year-year and a half ago (?) and must admit I prefer this steel to the 3V SMF. That's just on sharpening, edge taking and feel of the steels, as well as light cutting at extremely high ( for me, I typically run a steel with carbides around 400 grit after learning it by taking it up to 8-12K, and around 40 to 25 degrees inclusive trying to find the best working combo for my uses) sharpness. When I say high sharpness on a tough, wear resistant large carbide steel it's not the same high sharpness I mean when talking White/blue,Super Blue, W2, O-1, 52100,12c, 13C etc.
It sharpens so much easier than the ingot cruwear that it's going to take some proof to convince me that it has the wear resistance as the ingot cruwear or vascowear I'm used to. The Ingot Cruwear at rc 62 cuts longer for me at 35 degrees inclusive than the higher vanadium S30V. It's very much tougher, almost near the 3V level.
It is not as wear resistant as real, bonified rc 62 and up CPM M4. It will match the best fully hard M2 in wear and toughness though.
This powder version? WE will see.
Does anybody, CTS perhaps, have any help filling in the blanks, or experiences/anecdotes to add? I've been a Vascowear/cruwear fan since my first custom Vascowear fixed blade in the 1st half of the 90's. I have absolutely loved having the cruwear mules laying around for me to knock around and do comparison type stuff. I have not had the time, energy, resources to do Jim Ankerson Type testing to do more than just form opinions.
Hopefully between this, the mules, as well as the upcoming Cruwear millie some real testing will get done.
I do believe that the SNG blades are too thick for what Jim does though. We'll see when the millie comes out.
Bladechick 777, thanks for answering but I would bet money these SNG's aren't run at rc 63 just by their feel and sound on the stones.
Joe
Overall I'm very pleased by this SNG. The QC is excellent. No problems noted. I have a 3V SMF from the batch a year-year and a half ago (?) and must admit I prefer this steel to the 3V SMF. That's just on sharpening, edge taking and feel of the steels, as well as light cutting at extremely high ( for me, I typically run a steel with carbides around 400 grit after learning it by taking it up to 8-12K, and around 40 to 25 degrees inclusive trying to find the best working combo for my uses) sharpness. When I say high sharpness on a tough, wear resistant large carbide steel it's not the same high sharpness I mean when talking White/blue,Super Blue, W2, O-1, 52100,12c, 13C etc.
It sharpens so much easier than the ingot cruwear that it's going to take some proof to convince me that it has the wear resistance as the ingot cruwear or vascowear I'm used to. The Ingot Cruwear at rc 62 cuts longer for me at 35 degrees inclusive than the higher vanadium S30V. It's very much tougher, almost near the 3V level.
It is not as wear resistant as real, bonified rc 62 and up CPM M4. It will match the best fully hard M2 in wear and toughness though.
This powder version? WE will see.
Does anybody, CTS perhaps, have any help filling in the blanks, or experiences/anecdotes to add? I've been a Vascowear/cruwear fan since my first custom Vascowear fixed blade in the 1st half of the 90's. I have absolutely loved having the cruwear mules laying around for me to knock around and do comparison type stuff. I have not had the time, energy, resources to do Jim Ankerson Type testing to do more than just form opinions.
Hopefully between this, the mules, as well as the upcoming Cruwear millie some real testing will get done.
I do believe that the SNG blades are too thick for what Jim does though. We'll see when the millie comes out.
Bladechick 777, thanks for answering but I would bet money these SNG's aren't run at rc 63 just by their feel and sound on the stones.
Joe
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They aren't run at 63 Mastiff. Josh at SKI said that they are 60-61 rc, so I'd feel safe saying they are right at 60. It's funny that you said it's easy to sharpen, because I thought the same using a DMT coarse stone. My friend Brad Southard reground his Z-wear SnG and told me that it was extremely hard to grind. Seems like we are contradicting each other, but I won't pretend to think that sharpening can be equated with regrinding a primary bevel.
It's very similar to 3v in composition, with a little more carbon and a little less V. It's said that it's the German version of 3v, but until we see some hard data I'm just chocking that up to marketing and word of mouth. I can however say that it is extremely tough and extremely durable.
I cut an industrial steel staple with mine (more like pressed the staple in half with the edge of my SnG) and it suffered no edge damage or deformation whatsoever. I took my CPM-154 SnG and did the same and it showed significant rolling before I even got close to cutting the staple in two. Take that for what it's worth, but it is at least some real data.
It's very similar to 3v in composition, with a little more carbon and a little less V. It's said that it's the German version of 3v, but until we see some hard data I'm just chocking that up to marketing and word of mouth. I can however say that it is extremely tough and extremely durable.
I cut an industrial steel staple with mine (more like pressed the staple in half with the edge of my SnG) and it suffered no edge damage or deformation whatsoever. I took my CPM-154 SnG and did the same and it showed significant rolling before I even got close to cutting the staple in two. Take that for what it's worth, but it is at least some real data.