First "tactical" knife.

LG&M said:
I new someone would make a case for Emerson sooner or later. Thanks,RLD.
I was thinking more of the modern folder. No question fixed blades and hawks were used in combat since the beginning of war.
Also yes the good old Buck 110 has its place but IMO it is a precursor to the modern tac folder.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear: I do NOT consider myself knowledgeable enough to contribute anything meaningful or revelatory to this thread (or for that matter, many other threads). I am merely asking questions in an attempt to learn from others. Thank you.
 
I think we have to include the gravity knives issued to airborne units of both the U S and Germany. The Germans and the Brits issued them. When I was stationed in Berlin in 61 one of my close German friends loaned me one in mint condition that his Father had carried and hid it effectially. The Dad died of Cancer but Berndt gave me the knife to use on patrol in the Grunewald. I gave it back when I left Berlin in the middle of 62.
 
Seeing as how a tactical folder doesn't exactly have to be intended as a weapon, I don't think we should overlook the M2 paratroopers folder made by companies like Shcrade which was first issued in ww2.
It was specifically designed for quick access for use by a paratrooper to free themselves when caught in a tree, if that's not the definition of a tactical folder I don't know what is.
 
When did the Al Mar SERE folder come out? How about the Eagle and Falcon models with the false edge? I agree that the Buck 110 and also knives like the old brass and rosewood Gerber Sportsman models were kind of the transition between old timey pocketknives and serious "hard use" folders in the US.
 
jdm61 said:
When did the Al Mar SERE folder come out? How about the Eagle and Falcon models with the false edge? I agree that the Buck 110 and also knives like the old brass and rosewood Gerber Sportsman models were kind of the transition between old timey pocketknives and serious "hard use" folders in the US.
Click to expand...

I believe Al Mar SERE came out somewhere around 1985-1987. It was a two hand opening knife with no clip.

d484ae62387b91c0e9fc0d492a23982a.jpg



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
As mentioned, this is going to be a hard one to answer because you've got to define what a tactical knife actual is. For instance, the Al Mar SERE is considered a tactical knife, yet, it is missing lots of the elements that are common in tactical knives. Also things like thumb studs, flippers, etc..... were around on knives before 1981 on both custom and user modified knives.

For instance, a popular 1970's maker named Robert Hayes was making knives that would look right at home on the websites of modern tactical makers -

23tqk2b.jpg
.
 
Last edited:
You are right. What makes a folder "tactical "?
IMO one hand opening, pocket clip, good lock,easy to maintain & care for . Must be offered in black:rolleyes:
Well maybe not the last one.

Interesting photo & info on Hayes, thanks.
 
LG&M said:
You are right. What makes a folder "tactical "?
IMO one hand opening, pocket clip, good lock,easy to maintain & care for .
Click to expand...

Ok, under this criteria, Spyderco is the first on the factory side, Al Mar would be second.

Custom, I think Terzuola is probably correct. And a lot of this hinges on the clip to me. He's the earliest custom maker to offer a pocket clip that I can remember.
 
What would we consider the WW2 era German gravity knife or Case M2 automatic to be? Both were issued to airborne troops.
 
I was most thinking of the modern version but you are correct no doubt the gravity knives and autos fo WWII count as "tactical " As would all the cool blades of the OSS.
 
So, German Mercator is the earliest. Back lock folder without clip or thumb stud, just like Buck 110. Carried by German soldiers in WWI.
kat1.jpg


And British WWI issue knives.
WW1003.jpg~original


IMHO Emerson copied from that on the top handle scale pattern in his early CQC-6 versions.
 
Last edited:
LG&M said:
You are right. What makes a folder "tactical "?
IMO one hand opening, pocket clip, good lock,easy to maintain & care for . Must be offered in black:rolleyes:
Well maybe not the last one.

Interesting photo & info on Hayes, thanks.
Click to expand...

I think you nailed it.

It seems that a lot of folks are confusing "tactical" with "fighting/weapon." The latter have been around as long as there have been knives.
 
tltt said:
As mentioned, this is going to be a hard one to answer because you've got to define what a tactical knife actual is. For instance, the Al Mar SERE is considered a tactical knife, yet, it is missing lots of the elements that are common in tactical knives. Also things like thumb studs, flippers, etc..... were around on knives before 1981 on both custom and user modified knives.

For instance, a popular 1970's maker named Robert Hayes was making knives that would look right at home on the websites of modern tactical makers -

23tqk2b.jpg
.
Click to expand...

Hello tltt,

I am interested in information on the Robert Hayes folders with the flipper. Could you tell me what book you photographed and posted? Is this the Guidebook to Knives and Edged Weapons 1974, the Levine's Guide 2, or the Knife Digest First Annual Edition 1974? I've read those books have info on Hayes, but I want to make sure those books show the folders with flipper before buying. Thank you.

(http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...me-Makers-Revisited-Bob-Hayes?highlight=hayes)
 
For "tactical folders" I think the pocket clip (or at the very least a fast access pouch), the one-hand opening, locking, plus the point intended for fighting, and a blade size of at least 3.6 or 3.7", are probably the basics...

The Spydero C01 would not fit, while the Al Mar SERE is clearly for "Survival", with a large sharpening hone in the pouch...

The "Police" model makes it, but the early blade spine has a "step" in it that seems intended to discourage this classification, or at least the use...

A Spanish Navaja does not make it, these being traditional "two hand openers". The German gravity knives generally have rounded points and are intended for safe rope cutting, so no.

On a fixed blade, the "Tactical" idea is to combine fast draw, sleek point design and the largest size compatible with a particular concealment method. Unconcealed "Tactical Knives" would fall under the "Military" (single edge) or "Combat" (double edge, or long sharpened clip) categories, such as a Gerber Mk II carried openly on the belt, which would then become "Tactical" concealed... An EK Bowie with its unsharpened long clip/swedge might be "Military", a sharpened clip/swedge becomes "Combat" because of its significant clip/swedge length, then concealed it becomes "Tactical".

I don't really see anything that confusing with the way the word "Tactical" lends itself to be used: Fighting-oriented and concealed carry... "Military" is actually much broader and fuzzier... To me most Busses can be termed "Military" or "Survival", but most bigger models are certainly not "Combat", given the broad radius single edge points...

Gaston
 
It equals concealment plus fighting...

What else could it relate to that would distinguish it from utility cutting? Or fighting alone, which is the same as combat?

Gaston
 
LG&M said:
...I always thought of Bob Terzuola but really don't know.
Also I think of Spyderco as the first production tactical folder and the The Fairbairn–Sykes as the first modern fixed blade.
Honestly I don't like the word tactical applied to knives
How about modern sporting folder?
That might be a different topic all together.
Click to expand...
IMO it is all different topic. "Tactical" only means that it is designed to be used as a weapon, have specific properties as effective guard, certain position of the tip and so on.
And it's got to be BLACK ! :D
My understanding is also that BT is the father of the tactical knives but I don't think you can name only BT without add also Buch Vallotton and Bill Harsey to his and Emerson's names. They all develop what today goes for "tactical" knife, whatever that means anyway... :D
 
miketurner said:
Hello tltt,

I am interested in information on the Robert Hayes folders with the flipper. Could you tell me what book you photographed and posted? Is this the Guidebook to Knives and Edged Weapons 1974, the Levine's Guide 2, or the Knife Digest First Annual Edition 1974? I've read those books have info on Hayes, but I want to make sure those books show the folders with flipper before buying. Thank you.

(http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...me-Makers-Revisited-Bob-Hayes?highlight=hayes)
Click to expand...

The fellow (Kohai999) that originally posted it said it was from the 1974 Knife Digest by Cassidy. Levine's Guide #2 has more pictures of various Hayes flippers, but I don't recall any historical info being mentioned. The Guns and Ammo Guidebook to Knives is a great book, that did cover Hayes some, but in more of a general sense. The first two books are better for pictures of the flipper models.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top