First timer design

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winterparkmg

Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Messages
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Hey all, I've been lurking as an unregistered user and learning for a while now. Recently, a friend and I did a multi-day land navigation challenge in the Mojave and brought two Desert Bighorn horns out with us. So our present to ourselves for surviving (and nailing our nav points) was the idea of constructing our own custom blades and using the horns for scales.

I am posting this as a "what do you think" effort regarding the overall design. Please let me know your thoughts in any regard, and I will greatly appreciate all criticism to help me along the way.


OAL: 9"
Extended tang plus handle: 4.5"
Blade height: 1"
Material: 1095 @ 5/32 x 2"
Index finger hole in front of handle for greater carving/whittling control
Thumb serrations or jimping for leverage while slicing and power while using carving grip

Undecided on the bevel design yet. The knife will be carried horizontally in a custom leather sheath on a belt. Sheath will have a detachable loop so it can also be carried around the neck, suspended by the lanyard hole at the back of the handle.

I am also hoping to have a creative hardening pattern if possible. Cutting edge and spine will be heated to a straw color hardness, and middle of the blade to dark blue/purple for flexibility. This will be done in hopes of being able to hammer the blade through wood lengthwise for kindling with available wood or smaller stones if necessary.

So how ambitious am I being, and what do you think of the aesthetics/functionality of this VERY BASIC first design drawing? Thanks so much for looking, and I will continue to post updates of the process, if anyone is interested.

Initial Design Drawing

~William
 
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Trying to fix image link. Google photos doesn't want to play ball... Great way to introduce myself to the community!
 
I think the butt of the handle is a little too pointy for a utility knife
 
It's a pretty good first design! I'd enlarge the finger choil a bit and extend the handle much further up the handle. The pointiness of the lanyard loop might be painful in hand during use. I like the blade shape and handle shape otherwise.

I think 5/32" is overkill on something of this size. You can make an 1/8" blade extremely strong depending on how you grind it. I've tested knives of this size with 1.25" grind heights (0.015" at the edge) in AEB-L stainless @ 60 HRC. Batoning cross grain wasn't an issue at all, even in unstable wood. I'd suggest about a 1" grind height on 1/8" stock (to about 0.015" at the edge) on something like this. If you're limited by the steel you already have, I'd increase it to 1.25".

I'd avoid trying anything funky with the HT if this is one of your first blades. HT is the most important thing to get right, so focus on getting it right first and work out from there. Moving to a steel like 1075 might also be a good idea for this reason.

Sorry for the long response; I like getting into the little details.
 
Best way to test your designs are to cut them out of thin plywood or similar before you commit them to steel. A little research and development at the concept stage will save you a lot of grief in the long run.
 
i agree with lorien, if that is in a belt sheath and you trip in the woods, the pointy end might jab your arm or side/ribs.
 
Thank you all for the great advice! I have taken those ideas and incorporated into a few more designs. I'm partial to number 3 for a few reasons: my thumb extends 1.5" in front of where the larger finger choil will lie. If I want any jimping on the spine (and I plan on taking VanguardForge's advice and working with 1/8" stock instead), and I have ground the blade to a FFG profile, I will be creating a weaker spot on the spine at that point. Instead, I compromised by having the FFG meet the spine 1" past the top of the choil, I marginally increase the blade rigidity, and still have a FFG profile for the vast proportion of the blade.

I looked at lengthening the handle (#4 and 5), but the blade/tang proportion goes to .84 (also due to the length taken up by the larger diameter choil). With the shorter handle (and using the pinkie catch for leverage), I will have a ratio RIGHT at 1:1. And to me, aesthetically it is a more appealing design. I did make the handle on #3 a little taller to accommodate my grip and fitment. The others measure 1-1.25" over the length of the handle.

Regarding the point on the extended tang: I plan on a horizontal belt sheath to be carried at the small of my back. I could easily put a leather hoodie on the tang if I feel I could be injured by it, but if mounted in that configuration, I don't see that it would be a safety risk. I don't mean at all to discount the concern that Lorien and John expressed. It's nice to have others say it out loud, but I believe that can be engineered around. I would rather have the strong point available at the end of the tang for breaking ice, etc than having to use the point.

Ultimately, I will definitely carve the design out of a block of wood first. This will let me practice the function of the grind/bevel angle templates and forms I will be making for the project, and produce a neat wood version of the knife for memento and leather sheath fitment purposes. Great idea Del Raso!

So here are the modified options. I'm interested in all opinions given. At this point, the measurements have been updated and are listed below:
Max blade height: 1.2"
Max length from top of choil: 4.5"
Min length: 4"
Max handle height: 1.2", min: 1"
Max handle length: 4.75", min: 4.25
Thickness of steel: 1/8", considering 7/64"

Hardening can be done easily at home, but HT will be outsourced if I go with anything more than a standard HRC spread from edge to spine.

Finally: I picked the 1095 based on its desirable properties, but is 1075 really worth exploring if I ship the blades out for HT?

Thank you all. The responses have been great and immensely helpful in furthering the design. I can't wait to get started on this!!!

~William

Design Options
 
I think at this point you might have better luck getting some practical help in the Shoptalk forum. I'm pretty sure I can move your thread there, if you like.
 
cool, I'll figure out how to do that. Will save you time redoing it, and when there's already feedback, more is invited.
It seems to me like a bunch of knife makers giving you advice would really help you out right about now, and you seem like a guy who has both an objective and a willingness to learn.

Cheers!
 
I wouldn't try for any fancy HT and tempering. Basic design looks goo in the first picture. The second one you posted won't open for me without signing in and giving my password. I would get rid of the pointed butt.

Also, flexibility is a function of geometry ( mostly thickness) not of hardness or temper.

I would suggest a plungeless Full Flat Grind (FFG) for the bevel.
 
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