Five knives in car prevent trip to the Pokey !!

Of course my first instinct is to cooperate, but at the same time, if the officer doesn't have the right to search me, why should I let him?

Besides, with all the attention knives and razors have recieved post 9/11, who knows how my perfectly legal knives will be interpreted by a LEO - especially here in NYC. I've heard plenty of stories on the board of people having their knives confiscated.

Also, knife laws tend to leave a lot of room for interpretion. For example, is a knife that can be flipped open considered a gravity knife and therefore illegal? I'd rather not give an officer the opportunity to interpret whether the knives I'm carrying are legal or not.
 
YOU CANNOT GO TO JAIL FOR REFUSING A SEARCH!!! Ask any defense lawyer in any state. If a cop thinks he has probable cause he will search the car, no doubt about it. I could care less about pissing a cop off. He works for me. I have nothing to hide either. The whole "Shouldn't bother you if you have nothing to hide" is police state bull ****....
 
Originally posted by Raptor
It's the "Do you have any weapons on you?" question that makes me wonder. I mean if you say no then maybe in a LEO's eyes you just lied but if you say yes then you've just admitted to carrying a weapon.

Maybe I would say something like, "Well, you may consider this a weapon so you should know I have a knife in my right front pocket." I wonder if that would go over OK with a LEO?:confused:

Consider the idea that if they ask a bad-guy whether he has a weapon that the cop "needs to be concerned about" (that's how they usually ask), a bad-guy who means to use his weapon against the cop is NOT GOING TO ADMIT TO HAVING IT UNTIL HE BRINGS IT TO BEAR AGAINST THE COP. The policy of asking this most assinine question is akin to signs at stores that forbid carrying concealed weapons into the store. A person who carries legally for protection is not a threat, and a person who would obey the sign and leave a weapon in the car is not a threat, but a person who DOES mean harm is going to ignore the stupid-ass sign.

And we continue to confiscate little old ladies' tweezers...
 
Originally posted by RoninPimp
The whole "Shouldn't bother you if you have nothing to hide" is police state bull ****....

AMEN!!!

I suppose those who argue that philosophy wouldn't mind a state camera in their bedroom to monitor their sexual practices so that the authorities can be sure they are not committing sodomy or other behaviors that are banned in certain jurisdictions. Right? If you aren't doing wrong, you shouldn't mind Big Daddy Government's Prying Nose stuck into your business.
 
I think that's a great metaphor! It shouldn't matter whether I have anything to hide or not. My privacy is still _my_ privacy.
 
Originally posted by UltraSteele
Wouldn't withholding consent just make a cop... less charitable?

What do you think,x39?
"Charitable"???? Are we talking about the police or the mafia here? Sorry, but I will not surrender my constitutional rights for an officer to go on a fishing expedition in the hopes that it will make him more "charitable". I'd let them get a warrant, in my case I know they'd come up with nothing anyway. If you haven't committed a crime and have nothing to hide, that's even GREATER reason to refuse a search, because the officer can't possibly have any good reason to search you!
 
It's pretty obvious not many of you are of a minority race or class. If you were, then you'd know that cops often pull over and search based upon their prejudices. That's what's known as Driving While Black, Hispanic, White Trash, etc. If a cop's bored, you'll be searched. If a cop doesn't like your looks, you'll be searched. The Supreme Court took away our rights when it comes to personal searches, the cop can now search for his "own protection."

Your car or house are a different matter. They can't search that w/o probable cause...such as the scent of maryjane. With your car, they can make you wait for the K9 unit, but if that comes up negative, they can't search your car.

My friend's brother happened to be the only black man to get off a plane from Dallas; cops had a trip a mule was bringing in some drugs. Of course they pull him out, he doesn't consent to a search to his luggage, but they search his body for "their protection." They make him wait 2 hours until they get a K9 unit (its Sunday). Comes up clean, they have to let him go w/o a search of his bags. My friend's brother is a surgeon and well connected with the media, you better believe the story made the papers and TV. The white drug dealer sailed through the airport free as a bird.

If you've got the time and want to piss off a police tyrant, refuse the search of your vehicle and lock your car when he takes you back to the cruiser. Make sure you get the officer's full name and badge number. One good thing about video in cruisers, is it help keeps the cops honest.
 
So does that mean, that if a cop just wants to talk to me on the street, he has the right to search me "for his own protection"? Nobody's been able to definitively answer that question.
 
Ya know, I *have* bought into that whole "if I have nothing to hide" thing. I really don't. Like most of you, I'ma law-abiding citizen, whose only real brush with the law will continue to be... gasp... occasionally exceeding the speed limit.

I have a degree in journalism, and know damn well how to assert my rights regarding free speech, and other such areas... but pull me out of that genre and suddenly I've forgotten I have rights.

I'm not looking to cause a fuss anywhere, but it didn't occur to me that there would have to be something pretty strange going on for a LEO to have probable cause to do ANYTHING with me...

Thank you all for talking people. I really appreciate the insight.
 
Somebody more knowledgeable please correct me if I a wrong. What I can recall from a law enforcement class, I took a couple of semesters ago, is that driving is a right and not a privilege. This means that when you accept a driver's license, the right to deny a search of your vehicle on a public roadway is gone. Basically, if a cop wants to search your car, he will find a way to do so.

Welcome to the land of the free.:rolleyes:

Jeff
 
Originally posted by Jeff O
This means that when you accept a driver's license, the right to deny a search of your vehicle on a public roadway is gone.
Not so, the fact that you're in a public place doesn't negate the protection of the Bill of Rights.
 
Originally posted by UltraSteele


Thank you all for talking people. I really appreciate the insight.
Hey, that's what it's all about isn't it? Have a good one! :)
 
Now, I don't speed. Well, I have not gotten a ticket in 20 years for it. However the last time I got stopped I did have to tell the officer I was carrying a 1911. (with permit of course) Once he checked out the fine firearm and my permit he simply told me I had to be one of the good guys or I wouldn't have the permit. He gave my Colt back and just told me to slow down a bit. No ticket.
As far as a knife goes, if it isn't an auto, there are no worries. In fact, here in NC, as long as it is in plain view, a firearm is no problem. You only need the permit to carry it conceled.
For what it is worth. NEVER consent to a search!
Now what is this about five knives? Were you having a light day?
 
I think these search laws vary considerably from state to state, as do the knife laws and weapons laws.

When I get pulled over (and I do get pulled over because I drive a car that doesn't fit the neighborhood) I get out of the car, hands first, and go stand between the two cars.
I don't like someone looking down at me and searching my car from the driver's side window.
It gives them too much power.
I want a position of mutual respect and power.

A flashlight searching my car feels like a finger up one of my most personal body cavities.
It gives the cop too much power, and if he became a cop for power it only feeds his disease.

One cop told me to stay in the car.
I ignored him, as if I didn't hear him, and got out anyway, hands open and first.
Another cop responded with a gunfighter stance, crouched with hand on pistol.
I just treated it as a normal posture.

I don't think general statements apply to cops.
I've seen all kinds.
I worry most about female cops.
I've had a female city cop and a female state trooper pull me over.
In both situations I realized I had a biting dog on my hands.
I also pay attention to short male cops.

It helps to pay close attention to everything a cop says.
Some of them want attention.

Cops tend to ask closed questions, which a person can answer "yes" or "no."
I answer "Yes, officer" and "No, officer."
I make my body language and tone of voice as neutral as possible.
I try not to push buttons, resist, nor give away power.
I stand on two feet, with my hands open and at my sides, and answer clearly "Yes (with a pronounced "S" on the end of "Yes") Officer," and I attend to him or her.

Again, I open the door at the same moment as I apply the parking brake, and I get my feet and my hands out the door before they can tell me to stay in the car.
I want the cop to see me as a real person and as an equal who respects him (without fear, anger, contempt or indifference) in his role as a Law Enforcement Officer; two equal human beings in temporarily different roles.

With all respect and apologies beforehand, the person who started this thread should have covered the knife or put it under the seat.
I see leaving the knife in plain view as a "teaser" and a "button pusher."
This person already had so-called "concealed" knives all over the car and one more would not have made a difference.

We males have a thing about authority and adventure.
Sometimes we go looking for trouble, meaning an adventure with authority, without even realizing it.
It breaks the boredom and lets us mess with authority's mind a little.
How amusing to pull on Superman's cape, as long as society's rules keep him from sodomizing us.

When these things "go sideways" on us, we can look back to where and when we could have prevented the "sideways" event.
Put the knife under the seat or cover it with a hat, jacket or magazine.
Get out of the car and meet the cop half way.
 
I'd never consent to a search for a more practical reason. Not only does it waste both our precious time and invade my privacy, but I don't want my property torn up. Here's my example: A neighbor kid was pulled over. Cop "thought he was drunk". When it became clear that the kid hadn't been drinking, then the cops decided he must be carrying drugs in his car. The kid consented to a search, since he "didn't have anything to hide". The cops then proceded to rip off every panel in his dashboard and interior, ripped out the bundle of wiring to his stereo, and physically removed his seats and placed them in the ditch along the road by his car. After coming up empty handed, the cops said "See ya", and left him with his car completely torn to sh$t; seats still laying in the ditch.

I'm not letting them do that to me.
 
In general, I do NOT recommend that you exit your vehicle upon being pulled over. In most parts of Los Angeles County, if you exit your vehicle, ESPECIALLY after being told to stay inside your vehicle or to get back into your vehicle, there is a good chance that you will be treated as a hostile or combative subject. It ain't worth it.

Doing the following will help make a traffic stop go better for everyone involved:
1. pull over as soon as possible
2. roll down your windows
3. turn off your radio
4. turn on your interior light
5. turn off your ignition
6. place both hands on top of the steering wheel - passengers on top of the seats in front of them or the dash
7. do not make any sudden or furtive movements - don't retrieve something until told to do so
8. be polite/civil
 
To clarify the issue a bit, the officer in question never asked to search me or my car. He took me at my word that I had indeed revealed and displayed all of the knives in the car. All of the discussion and 'visual' searching took place through the window. I only left the car to place the knives in my trunk just before we drove off. Had he asked for a consent search I'm not sure what I would have done. I must admit I did quickly check my front pocket to see if I picked up an auto or manual for my daily carry that morning. It was a manual. Would I have hidden it had it been an auto:rolleyes: ?
 
Back
Top