Flamability ?

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Apr 24, 2007
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I have a "microshop" set up in my basement office. My grinders are piped into a 12 gallon shop vac, with a 5 gallon bucket in between that I fill with water. I don't run my vac with a filter, as it does collect water, I DO put water in the bucket. It tends to smell after some use. I asked my father, who is a chemical engineer, and he says that bleach in the bucket will not create a flamable atmosphere. Any second opinions?

Matt
 
Sorry, forgot to mention that I grind wood and steel on the same set up. That's my concern, is wood dust along with metal sparks, in a possible flammable atmosphere.

Matt
 
"Bucket in between " ? I don't understand what that means. Isn't a shop vac wet/dry ? If so put water in the shop vac.
Some metal dust ,especially magnesium, is very dangerous and require special treatment.
One source of info would be your fire department.
 
That 5 gallon bucket of water will collect alot of dust that the vac won't catch. Good idea. I wouldn't bother with the bleach though, instead change the water more often. Its a good idea to empty the vac out often. Those dust collection systems go up like the 4th of july when they get dirty enough to catch a spark. Keep a fire extinguisher handy, there should be one in a knifemaking shop.
 
Change the water often. Adding a product like Lysol or such would help control bacterial growth and odors.
Stacy
 
"Bucket in between " ? I don't understand what that means.

Me neither. How does one set something like that up? I don't mind sweeping at the end of a session, but I know there's a lot of dust in the air that I'd rather have sucked into a bucket or something...
 
You can purchase a spark trap from HF for about $30.They call it an ember trap. It is nothing but a 5 gal. metal bucket with an in and out vac hose in the top.
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=3394

The inlet goes in about 6 inches. There is a baffle sticking down about 10 inches . The outlet is flush with the top. The inlet comes from the grinder, and the outlet goes to the vac. You can put an inch or two of water in the can if you are using it for both metal and wood. Rust is always a problem with metal and water, so dumping the water and sludge between use is a good idea.
These are designed to run with a shop vac.
Stacy
 
Retarded question of the day... do the hot sparks just pass over the water and hopefully fall into it, or are they pulled through the water like in a hookah? I ask because I didn't realize a typical shop-vac would have enough "guts" to actually pull the sparks/dust/air through water. But if that's indeed the case, I'm sold on the concept.
 
No, they fall into the water. If you tried to pull them through the water ( called a water filter, BTW) it would quickly atomize all the water, not to mention probably filling the vac tank with water and foam. A hookah uses far lower air volume and speed.

The space in the spark trap becomes low pressure zone in the path to the vacuum motor. As the spark/grindings/dust enter the low pressure tank, they slow down ( larger space = lower pressure - Bernoulli's principle), and the loss of velocity allows gravity to cause them to fall. The baffle is there to direct the particles downward, avoiding the possibility of them jumping from the in to the out hose before they loose velocity. This (in part) is the basic principle that a cyclone dust collector works on. The trap does not need any water if the particles are only steel dust and sparks, but if you also grind wood the dust is flammable, so the addition of a cooling agent - water - will quench the sparks that get sucked into the vac line. Without a trap, the sparks can easily carry down 6-8 feet of vac hose and catch the vac drum and filter on fire.....ask just about anyone who has used a direct vac hose to the grinder. The cheap HF tank I showed has made the worry of sparks not a concern for me.

I have two hoses connected to my vac. One goes to the spark trap, and then to the grinder. The other goes directly to the grinder. There are two 4"X2 dust ports under the front of the grinder. The front one is directly under the belt ( where the spark spray goes). It is the one to the spark trap. The second one is the direct vac hose port. I have a 6"X3" plate of steel with a welding magnet on it that serves as a cover for the port I am not using. The magnet also makes it an extra catcher for stray metal dust. I have about six welding magnets sitting about on the grinder table to catch the stray metal dust/shavings. After a while they become black fuzzy balls, and I wipe the metal filings off with a gloved hand.
With the cover on the back port, the sparks and grindings go to the metal/spark trap. With the front port covered, I grind wood and the wood dust goes directly to the large shop vac tank. I am in the process of building a better system, where the changeover from wood to metal grinding is done by the flip of a lever. It will only have one hose and one port. The diverter will be what determines the path of the sparks/dust. More on that later as it finalizes.
Stacy
 
Use a liquid dish soap in the water. It acts a a surfactant and keeps it smelling nice.
 
"Bucket in between". I have a hose attached between my grinder and the bucket, then another between the bucket and vac. Put it together with a couple of PVC nipples, and rubber connections. I put water in the bucket, have been putting a LITTLE bleach in the bucket to keep biology from happening,

Never thought about dish soap or Lysol. Both the bucket and vac collect dust, and I have to clean out sludge every so often. I had the bucket, and enough vac hose to set it up already, and added about $15 worth of fittings.

+1 on the fire extinguisher suggestion. Yes, I do. I have oils, solvents, rags, paper, and so on, in a 12X15 room that is the only space I have to work in. Kinda like a combonation shop/office. I also don't like unplanned fire.

Stacy, that is my next move. Right now I use a catch pan.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Matt
 
No, they fall into the water. If you tried to pull them through the water ( called a water filter, BTW) it would quickly atomize all the water, not to mention probably filling the vac tank with water and foam...
Stacy

Gotcha. Thank you! :)
 
No, they fall into the water. If you tried to pull them through the water ( called a water filter, BTW) it would quickly atomize all the water, not to mention probably filling the vac tank with water and foam.

I toyed with that idea, but thought that would be the result also. Forgot to mention that in the inside of the inlet of my water bucket, I put a 90 degree elbow to direct the flow down towards the water. My vac does still collect water, but I thought that was a small price to pay for preventing lighting things on fire.

Use a liquid dish soap in the water. It acts a a surfactant and keeps it smelling nice.

Will this cause foaming?

Matt
 
Yes, dish soap is not as good as other things. Using a commercial defomer, like for a Rug Doctor, would work better. It totally reduces surface tension without allowing foam.
Stacy
 
Thanks forthe input. sounds like I am on the right track, just need a little refinement!
 
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