Recommendation? Flat, and Parallel, and Wa Handles, Oh My...

[Cushing H.]

I need your help/advice here.....

I am still struggling with one aspect of construction of Wa Handles. Not the assembly, but rather the initial creation and shaping of the segments that then get glued up into the stack. For example, in the below picture:

the three segments (separated by copper spacers) were individually cut (similar appearances for the but end of the handle). for this stack to look right (and for secure gluing) , the top and bottom of these pieces need to be 1) flat, and 2) parallel to each other. On this particular stack, I think I got really lucky. But before this one, and especially yesterday, getting this pre-glue geometry right, especially with these small pieces, is NOT easy.

I have tried parallel cuts on the bandsaw with careful hand-sanding on a flat plate (does not work consistently), I have tried sanding on my grinder with jigs in place to define perpendicular to the belt and another jig/block to apply even pressure to the block - that does not work consistently. I have tried the careful hand sanding to correct the messed up blocks - THAT does not work consistently. Yesterday I struggled with four different blocks of nice African Blackwood .... and I sit here not knowing if they are salvageable .

I know that several people have commented on using a disk sander to flatten scales ... but I have a small space and disks produce a lot of dust, AND it is not clear to me that one can be used to reliably create the mutually perpendicular sides.

I keep coming back to the thought that what I need is a mini-mill. Problems there are cost, and I dont really have space in my shop to permanently set a mini-mill .... but if I have to, I will find a way .

Am I missing another option? Am I wrong in thinking that a mini-mill will accomplish what I want it to do here (in addition to other work, like better drilling on hardened steel and shaping/slotting on bolsters and slotting the blade ends of Wa handles???? My four deformed blocks of African Blackwood eagerly await your input!

 

[weo]

Good morning, Cush. Hope things are going well in MN for you. Looks like you're keeping busy at least.

Am I missing another option?

Might I suggest, time, files, sandpaper, granite countertop (or machinist block) and something like a height gauge?
One should be able to hand file parallel surfaces.

hand-sanding on a flat plate (does not work consistently)

apply even pressure to the block - that does not work consistently

I have tried the careful hand sanding to correct the messed up blocks - THAT does not work consistently.

From my reading of the above, all the above techniques have worked for you, but you might not yet have put in enough time training your body parts to be consistent... How long did it take, and how many falls did you experience, before learning to walk consistently?

 

[Cushing H.]

Good morning William. Things are well here. Still not warm enough for me though

it *almost* sounds like you are saying i have not been patient enough with my tries? . . Quite possibly correct....

 

[weo]

Good morning William. Things are well here. Still not warm enough for me though

Too bad we can't change places...Just yesterday I commented on how little I'm looking forward to summer since moving south...It's already too hot for me to want to work in the forge in the afternoons....It got up to 76 degrees F yesterday! And it's not even May yet!!!!

...you are saying i have not been patient enough with my tries? . . Quite possibly correct....

Only you know if you've been patient enough.
These days (usually while hand sanding) I often think back to my first Blacksmithing book by Andrew Weygers where he writes about being an apprentice and the practice projects for learning hand filing. I need to practice more.

 

[DevinT]

Use double sided tape and stick the small pieces to a longer piece, square the platen to the work rest and use a fence. That is if I understand your problem correctly. Disc sanders are the best for this.

Hoss

 

[Cushing H.]

Use double sided tape and stick the small pieces to a longer piece, square the platen to the work rest and use a fence. That is if I understand your problem correctly. Disc sanders are the best for this.

Hoss

That is essentially what I did, but on my grinder. Worked the last time (hence the photo I showed)... but i have a new platen. Hmm ... makes me wonder if that new platen is not square side to side? Thank you for the idea.

 

[weo]

but i have a new platen

One thing I got in the habit of doing is to use a machinist square or 1-2-3 block to check my platen/work rest alignment each time I move it, even when merely changing to a new belt.

 

[DevinT]

You’ll never get it flat on a belt grinder, you need a disc sander.

Hoss

 

[Cushing H.]

You’ll never get it flat on a belt grinder, you need a disc sander.

Hoss

That’s what I was afraid of . Got it ... and thanks

oh ... I do use a machinists square ... but I only checked the vertical alignment ...

 

[FunkCoaster]

Regarding the mini-mill: It can work, sometimes. You'll want to spend the time making sure everything is square in your setup (vise, table, head, etc).
Many tools will cause tear-out on wood. I would not recommend fly cutters. I had moderate success with an endmill on ironwood, but it still required cleanup (I used a disc grinder). Suggest leaving extra material on the perimeter to account for tear-out sections.
I suspect that softer woods or open grained woods might be more prone to tear-out, but that's not my expertise.

I haven't tried it, but you could put an abrasive drum wheel into a mini mill, and use it as a poor-man's surface grinder.

The belt grinder is likely to 'bunch up' at the first point of contact, and round off the edges. Similarly, if flattening on a surface plate with sandpaper on it, you will want to avoid back-and-forth motion, using figure-eights instead to get flatter.

I've seen some people use a surface grinder with double-sided tape to hold it down.

Using a tile saw instead of a bandsaw might make the initial cut flatter.

 

[Cushing H.]

egarding the mini-mill: It can work, sometimes. .....
Many tools will cause tear-out on wood

Sounds like the mini mill is not really a good idea either. I was not doing figure eights while sanding on the flat plate - thank you for that reminder.

 

[Willie71]

These are worth their weight in gold.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...rasps/files/63451-japanese-milled-tooth-files

 

[John mc c]

A disc sander is the tool for this
And much cheaper and more useful to makers than a mini mill

 

[Natlek]

One thing I got in the habit of doing is to use a machinist square or 1-2-3 block to check my platen/work rest alignment each time I move it, even when merely changing to a new belt.

Even that don t work always , at least in my shop. When i need exactly 90 degree after i use machinist square I take piece of aluminium plate about one inch thick and grind little , then i flip sides and grind just little again......IF I see long thru the whole piece grinding lines I know that I have 90,00 degrees

 

[butcher_block]

fly cut all of my blocks for WA and scale sets with my mini mill its dirty work that i dont do on the bridgeport. got to grind the cutter right and even then some woods chip out disc sander will flatten parts but not guarantee parallel. a little time care and practice surface plate and sand paper will geet you as good as you need and much cheaper use a set of calipers to check thickness on the 4 edged to help nail down parallelism

 

[Josh Rider]

I use a 3/4” endmill in my mini mill and it works great.
It couldn’t handle steel at that size but goes through wood very fast and very precise.
I tried the fly cutter but I just could not get the geometry right on the cutter.
The 3/4” really helps remove wood fast especially squaring things up after a bandsaw cut for me because I haven’t set up a fence (not sure if I ever will).

 

[Cushing H.]

Thanks all for your thoughts. William was right - I was being lazy. And Butcher Block and FunkCoaster are also right on - I went back to my flat plate and sandpaper, and used a figure 8 motion (while checking and correcting edge lengths and squareness to the sides. Worked like a charm!

thanks again all.

 

[Cushing H.]

I use a 3/4” endmill in my mini mill and it works great.
It couldn’t handle steel at that size but goes through wood very fast and very precise.
I tried the fly cutter but I just could not get the geometry right on the cutter.
The 3/4” really helps remove wood fast especially squaring things up after a bandsaw cut for me because I haven’t set up a fence (not sure if I ever will).

Josh - with the 3/4" endmill - do you get wood pull out as others have commented? Or does the size of the endmill somehow correct that?

 

[Willie71]

Josh - with the 3/4" endmill - do you get wood pull out as others have commented? Or does the size of the endmill somehow correct that?

You could always use router bits. They are designed for wood. Wood and steel use different cutting geometry.

 

[Cushing H.]

You could always use router bits. They are designed for wood. Wood and steel use different cutting geometry.

I dont know a lot about router bits (or mills either) - are you thinking of a straight router bit? Used in the chuck instead of the collet?

For the components of a Wa, I would be far more interested in the two opposing surfaces being flat and parallel to each other. The sides of the thing get sanded away anyway......