Flat grind.. good or bad?

By basically the same, I mean that they are flat ground. A Scandi grind or sabre just ends before the spine. It is basically the same when it comes to chopping in functionality. If we were talking about splitting, I would say the two grinds act very differently, as the Scandi would act more as a wedge.
 
Its rarely about the grind itself; its about blade geometry, steel selection and heat treatment. You can adapt most any grind to any job by changing the blades geometry and steel along with the heat treat.
 
I think cold steel's response is rather comical considering they basically encourage abuse of their knives (or at the very least heavily imply that they can take it) with their solid proof videos.

At the end of the day, however, I think this failure was more about a mediocre steel with a poor heat treat than it was about blade geometry. Not that blade geometry doesn't play a factor, and I do think that saber grinds split wood better than full flat grinds, but the blade clearly took a set/deformation before it broke. That shouldn't have happened that easily.

That said, it is a fairly thin grind, so I would take extra care with batonning.

Looks like the break had a fairly good sized grain behind it too, though it's hard to tell exactly from the video.
 
This is a RD 7 Bush series at 3/16" thick, the standard RD is 1/4". The grind on this knife is very thin out of the box and cuts circles around the ESSE 6 which is more robust.
I have used this knife hard with no problems. Sure I could break it in 30 seconds like any other knife but under normal use its fine.
If you are looking for a good balance between cutting ability and durability the RD 7 Bush is hard to beat for the price.

A quick word on Ontario's warranty:
I broke a large chunk from the blade of a RTAK pounding through some petrified fatwood.
I sent them the knife and had a new one in my hands in a week no questions asked.

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filedog said:
I agree with Twindog - I would use a different tool for that job. But, if I had to use a knife for batoning, I would choose a saber grind, like a Sykco 711

from their website: The Leatherneck-SF (for Semper-Fi) has a saber ground clip point blade. It's hollow ground and honed by hand to a startling razor sharpness

It's not a good sign when a maker can't get their ad-copy straight (Since it's hollow-ground it ain't saber ground). That blade is designed more for stabbing than chopping, (for batoning, you normally don't want a swedge or clip point, again that's for stabbing).

The steel: German 4116 Stainless Steel: A fine grained, stainless steel produced by Germany’s ThyssenKrupp. Often used for medical devices and food processing, the steels Carbon and Chromium content give it a great degree of corrosion resistance, as well as strength and edge retention. 4116 Stainless Steel has a Carbon Content between 0.42-0.55 and it’s Chromium content is between 13.8-15.

Doesn't sound like a particularly tough steel - which is what you want - the Ranger uses 5160 - known for toughness - often used in choppers. I'd say the Ranger would get the job done for you, or the Becker BK7, in that price range.
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actually - saber grind just means the grind doesn't go all the way to the spine -- you CAN have a hollow saber grind.
 
1066vik said:
actually - saber grind just means the grind doesn't go all the way to the spine -- you CAN have a hollow saber grind.
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^This. Also realize that the blade in the first vid was the original SF in SK-5 with a full FG. The newer ones are 4116 with the hollow saber grind. Anyhoo, I wouldn't let that failure video turn you off of FFG blades. As Fred said, geometry, steel, and HT are more important factors to consider. I don't have an Ontario Ranger, but I do have a pre-Ontario RD-9 in FFG that was made by Justin back when he ran Ranger Knives, and I can tell you it's plenty tough. I doubt that I could possibly break it under any conceivable circumstance. :thumbup:

edit: Here's an old shot of the beast back when it was new ('06). It looks pretty gnarly now, with a dark patina (uncoated 5160) and lots of scratches, but it's held up phenomenally.

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1066vik said:
actually - saber grind just means the grind doesn't go all the way to the spine -- you CAN have a hollow saber grind.
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Same is true for scandies (a type of saber). In fact, the Moras I have came with a shallow hollow grind.
 
I think of sabre grinds as referring only to flat-ground knives. With a full flat grind, the V-shaped grind begins at the spine. With a sabre grind, the V-shaped grind begins somewhat below the spine.

The grind on hollow grind knives begins below the spine, making it look like a sabre grind, but all hollow grind knives are like this. If the hollow grind begins close to the spine, it's called a high hollow grind, not a sabre grind. If the grind begins lower, it's just a hollow ground blade.
 
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