Flat grind = poor seller?

trout #2

trout #2

Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
527
I've noticed it mentioned in several threads in this forum that flat grinds don't sell as well as hollow grinds in the general public market. What's the issue behind this? Is it just the appearance? I'm personally quite fond of all my flat ground Spydies for both their appearance and performance.
 
I'm pretty sure it's simply because of appearance. In general, non-knife people buy on looks as they don't know any better. I think people are more used to that look in kitchen knives but not in the larger pocket knife.
 
I was the same way when I first got into knives, I was drawn to that "familiar" look the hollow grind has. Now that I have a Para and Caly Jr., and have experimented some with slicing performance, I see the advantages:thumbup: . I have also grown to love a flat grind's cleaner looks, and the way it feels on a sharpmaker. I wonder what the difference in tooling cost's is between the two? It wouldn't hurt my feelings to see every model in flat grind.:cool:
 
Now please don't get me wrong because I am not at all trying to be confrontational with you but I have a knife dealer friend of mine who told me that he sells a lot of the Spyderco flat grinds i.e. Military, Lil T, all of the Calypso models, Yojimbo, Manix. Some of these I have mentioned he tells me he can't keep in stock. Maybe it is just the crowd you know and their knife preferences. I happen to like the Flat grinds myself and several of the guys I chat with on the Spyderco.com Forum tell me that is their preference also.

Now a lot of the people have the misconception that you can get a hollow grind blade sharper based on the fact that your straight razors are hollow ground. But I have never gotten any knife sharper than my Burgundy Calypso Jr. with ZDP-189 steel. I would sure like to hear some more on this. If I am wrong I would like to know in detail as to why?
 
I just don't think people really know much about them and the advantages of owning one. They buy hollow or saber ground knives because most of them look like what they expect a knife to look like, because most of them look that way.
 
I suspect that it might be a dealer problem more than anything. I really haven't seen much in the way of flat ground Spydies or flat ground folders of any stripe at B&M knife dealers I've visited. Maybe one Military at one shop, but that is it.

In a way it is really dealers which are the primary customer of Spyderco. What they buy (directly or through a distributor) decides what gets produced and what stays in production. I bet a lot of dealers don't buy flatground at all, other than kitchen knives.

A dealer that knows how to pitch flatgrinds can probably sell them as easily as hollows or sabers. But I expect that most shops don't even have them, and most sales reps at knife shops aren't knife afis, they are just standard retail clerks selling widgets.

'd bet that with a model like the flatground Police, that dealers just didn't order it and the average customer never saw it.

I don't know if it would be worth the financial risk to Spyderco, but something like a full-flat ground Endura or Delica sprint would be an interesting market test to see if dealers bite. We may be too quick to blame the ELU for not being educated, but maybe it is the dealer that needs education.
 
Carlos said:
I don't know if it would be worth the financial risk to Spyderco, but something like a full-flat ground Endura or Delica sprint would be an interesting market test to see if dealers bite.
Click to expand...

I would sure as heck bite.:thumbup:
 
I happen to like hollow grind very much and prefer it to flat grind, that said I will buy a saber flat grind knife...if it's a Spyderco. hollow grind to me is a much much better slicer. My two favorite Spyderco EDCs are the old style integral clip Endura and the Dodo, both hollow grind. Spyderco is definitively moving to all flat grind and that's cool, but it's gonna take a while for me to get used to it.
Cheers,
Rob
 
I think hollow grinds cut better, and can be properly resharpened longer than a flat grind. Flat grinds are fine for heavy use knives, but for a simple folder I'd rather have a hollow grind.
 
ElectricZombie said:
I think hollow grinds cut better, and can be properly resharpened longer than a flat grind. Flat grinds are fine for heavy use knives, but for a simple folder I'd rather have a hollow grind.
Click to expand...

So far the Spyker is the only hollow grind that I've liked better than flat grinds, but it is a very high hollow grind with a wharncliffe point. Awesome cutter.
 
Carlos said:
I don't know if it would be worth the financial risk to Spyderco, but something like a full-flat ground Endura or Delica sprint would be an interesting market test to see if dealers bite. We may be too quick to blame the ELU for not being educated, but maybe it is the dealer that needs education.
Click to expand...


Full-flat Endura/Delica 4.... That is a very exciting idea. :D
 
I've used Spyderco folders with full-flat grinds, and I've used ones with the flat sabre grind, and I've used ones with hollow grinds--and I really can't say that one cuts better than the other for anything that I require from a folder.

I liked my black-blade Military, but it really did'nt cut any better than my Atlantic Salt, and both the Military and the Atlantic Salt cut better than my flat-ground Salsa.:cool:

Allen.
 
"I don't know if it would be worth the financial risk to Spyderco, but something like a full-flat ground Endura or Delica sprint would be an interesting market test to see if dealers bite."

HELLO! Why didn't I ever think of that? A flat ground Delica just might be the best small knife around. right now the Caylpso Jr. has that title but I always liked the more pointy blade of the Delica.
 
If we're gonna ask for one of Spyderco's two biggest sellers in a flat grind, then let's go for the Endura. The Calypso Jr. is already kinda Delica / Native ... etc .. like. BUT ... we've already got a Delica on the way ....

right ..... the ZDP Delica .. :)

Razz
 
wotanson said:
hollow grind to me is a much much better slicer.
Click to expand...
My opinion is the exact opposite. As a simple matter of fact when you cut into deep soft objects, like meat, cheese, or pretty much anything thicker than 1/2" the ridge of the hollow ground engages the object at a much harder angle than a flat ground knife.
I drew a picture to illustrate this.
versus7nj.png
 
Walking Man said:
My opinion is the exact opposite. As a simple matter of fact when you cut into deep soft objects, like meat, cheese, or pretty much anything thicker than 1/2" the ridge of the hollow ground engage the object at a much harder angle than a flat ground knife.
I drew a picture to illustrate this.
versus7nj.png
Click to expand...


You may be correct in the example you give, but I usually cut objects much less thick than 1/2" with a pocket knife. These are usually but not restricted to plastic and rubber tubing, plastic packaging material and cardboard boxes. Hollow grind doesn't crimp the small endotracheal tubes and rubber urinary catheters commonly used in the Veterinary clinics I've worked in, and works wonders on cardboard. I understand your illustration but the hollow grind seems much more shallow that what I've experienced in most of the knives I own, in particular the very high hollow grinds on my Elishewitz folders, and in relation to the angle of the flat grind illustrated. Hollow grind, because of the gentle slope of the grind seems to "part" whatever I'm cutting which seems to have a less dragging quality to it. That said, although I haven't by any means conducted a scientific study of the differences between the two grinds, hollow grind seems to work better for me in real world applications. I do appreciate the info and your opinion, sincerely.:thumbup:

Cheers,
Rob
 
redhawk44p said:
Where is Cliff Stamp when we need him? He could explain clearly.
Click to expand...
What wasn't I clear about?
wotanson, I understand what you saying and most hollow ground knives will actually slice better for the first part of any cut for the exact opposite reason, because the blade is initially thinner toward the edge of the blade. So yes, if tend not to slice things that are a little deep, a hollow ground might the best choice for you.
 
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